2 Christian aid groups suspended in Afghanistan

Boomer wrote:

Angel wrote:

Learn your history and you'll learn that Christianity did the same. Do you know about the crusades? the spanish inquistion?

There has always been fighting going on in that region for centuries, why is today different.

There is always wars going on between african tribes of differring beliefs Africa.

People have always fought over different ideologies and i don't think its going to stop anytime soon either.

I�m not going to excuse the outrageous acts of islamists simply because �hey, they did it too�. You do realize the Spanish Inquisition occurred centuries ago, right? Also, let�s remember that the Spanish Inquisition was not a worldwide problem that put every corner of the planet at risk.

I concur but i'm not stepping down from my points thou.

This is perhaps the greatest threat that the world faces � that islamists make excuses for Islamic terrorism. It seems that you have fully embraced the �What Islamic Terrorism?� pathology that is so much a component of Islamism. Apparently, the internecine hatreds (which roots date back 1,400 years) and which cause islamists to mass slaughter each other and others is to be excused because �Hey � they did it too�. Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to geopolitics in the islamist Middle East can understand that the plight of the arab/muslim world has everything to do with Arab/muslim intransigence, an utter inability to compromise and make peace with the out-group; all of which finds it�s focal point at an ancient text delineating the above.

Perhaps it is the greatest threat or not but you cannot just brush over a billion of muslims with one brush.

Can you tell me why so many non muslims work and live in the ME especially the UAE?

(Angel)Both Christianity and Islam and other faiths live side by side in peace in some parts of the ME. If its as bad as you make it out to be, then there should be an all out war. But please tell me why so many non muslims from parts of the world move there, live and work? (it cannot be all about the tax free shopping)

Actually, I can�t tell you why �so many� non islamists work and live in the ME because �so many don�t�. Further, why not define for us those �some parts� of the Middle East where Islamism hasn�t driven out competing religions.

I know there are a lot of australians living and working in the UAE and I'm quite sure there are plently of other people from elsewhere to. I wonder what attracts them to live and work in a predominate islamic state if its so bad. Unless the tax free shopping is that great!

The reason i say 'some parts' is because it varies across the area and its too time consuming to look and list but if you are interested perhaps you can do a search for yourself

How many competing faiths exist in

Saudi Arabia

? Please discuss for us the discrimination that Christian Copts face in Egypt. How many non-islamists are there in Yemen and other �islamist� parts of North Africa? The list goes on. At no time in Islamic history has Islamism been accommodating to competing religions. There has never been equality for non-Muslims in a Muslim sharia state and there have been too often times of mass murder and persecution, forced conversion, forced exile, and oppression, even as far back as the time of Mohammed. The restrictions on non-muslims in the freedom to practice their faith, maintain houses of worship, engaging in permissible trades, in humiliating dress and restrictions on travel, etc. are part of Muslim history and law. Let�s not pretend that Islamism has ever been promoting of competing religions.

Since when does a religion promote another religion??

Actually if you do learn a bit more you will see that there was a time that Christianity and Islam lived peacefully side by side. The time when Spain was ruled under Isam, much was achieved together for the benefit of humanity.

Just incase you haven't realised or learnt, much of Indonesia is Islamic.

Edited by Angel - 06 June 2010 at 10:15am

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

Boomer wrote:

Report back to us what you find.

You seem to have all the answers and the right views why should i report back then??

Look I am not disagreeing with you on some of the issues of honor killings but I do know that its not ALL islamic and it comes down to culture more so than religion. Whether its the societal norm or not it happens in christianity also and in India where both religions are not the beliefs systems there.

Putting aside what is and isn't the societal norms, do you agree that honor killings happen across different belief systems and cultures and places?

Or do you honestly believe that it is just an islamic thing?

Edited by Angel - 06 June 2010 at 10:47am

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

Angel wrote:

Boomer wrote:

Report back to us what you find.

You seem to have all the answers and the right views why should i report back then??

Look I am not disagreeing with you on some of the issues of honor killings but I do know that its not ALL islamic and it comes down to culture more so than religion. Whether its the societal norm or not it happens in christianity also and in India where both religions are not the beliefs systems there.

Putting aside what is and isn't the societal norms, do you agree that honor killings happen across different belief systems and cultures and places?

Or do you honestly believe that it is just an islamic thing?

There's no need to hate me for simply asking you to support your claims.

Boomer wrote:

Angel wrote:

I concur but i'm not stepping down from my points thou.

Thou�est need not step down from �points�, one only needs to support them.

And you�re the King of supporting your points, right??

I brought my resources, if you�re not happy with them that is your issue to deal with not me

Boomer wrote:

Angel wrote:

Perhaps it is the greatest threat or not but you cannot just brush over a billion of muslims with one brush.

My concern is with the sizeable community of islamists who have yet to claw their way beyond the mindset that will keep them enslaved to dogma laid down in an ancient text that has little relevance in the modern world. I am surrounded with far better, more current, and more comprehensive sources of applicable knowledge than what is contained in the Koran. Why would I go to the manifesto of a 7th century Arab warlord for practical advice on living in the 21st Century?

In scanning the forum itself I see it's populated by a great by islamists who live in the West and have had no real exposure to islam except the version that�s throttled by secular Western governance. There are times when I�m convinced that women in the West who defend such things as burqas and who have never been subjected to the real islam need a �selective service� system, of sorts. I�ll suggest that the ummah�s girls living in the West need to register for a term of enlistment that includes actually living in the islamist Middle East for a period of time. It would allow them to announce their rights to dress as they choose in such places as the KSA or Iran� as they�re dragged away by the �virtue police�, kicking and screaming, demanding their rights.

If that is you view I will not argue but where is your support/references especially if you say you are "surrounded with far better, more current, and more comprehensive sources of applicable knowledge than what is contained in the Koran."

Boomer wrote:

Angel wrote:

I know there are a lot of australians living and working in the UAE and I'm quite sure there are plently of other people from elsewhere to. I wonder what attracts them to live and work in a predominate islamic state if its so bad. Unless the tax free shopping is that great!

The reason i say 'some parts' is because it varies across the area and its too time consuming to look and list but if you are interested perhaps you can do a search for yourself

Actually, you�re the one making the claim of �so many� Australians living and working in the islamist Middle East. I was expecting that you would support your claim.

I never said 'so many' australians, I said 'a lot' of australians. Earlier when i mentioned 'so many' i meant from around the world from varies places go to UAE to work and live. Like I said if you are so interested you can do a search for yourself, check the varies countries statistics from consenus. Usually i would do some leg work but i'm all out of energy at the moment.

Boomer wrote:

Angel wrote:

Since when does a religion promote another religion??

Actually if you do learn a bit more you will see that there was a time that Christianity and Islam lived peacefully side by side. The time when Spain was ruled under Isam, much was achieved together for the benefit of humanity.

Just incase you haven't realised or learnt, much of Indonesia is Islamic.

Religions rarely promote competing religions but it is only in the islamist world where competing religions are routinely banned.

Well is it not their choice to do so is it not?.

And the problem for you with it, is what? Do you want to go there and live do you?

Boomer wrote:

I've always found it remarkable that islam is apparently the only faith that must use fear, intimidation and threats to keep it's adherents. The obvious question is: why do islamists need to use force and threats whils making islam the "state religion".

Sheesh!

Well Christianity uses fear, intimidation to, the threat of Hell.

Boomer wrote:

Actually, if you do a search, you will find that following the islamist colonization of Spain, the usual subjugation and second-class status of non-moslems was rigorously enforced. I�m concerned when islamists make false claims about islamist conquests and hope to portray the islamist conquerers as something other than conquering hordes. At no time in islamist history has the non-Muslims (kuffar) been the equal of Muslims. This is why there is a dhimmi (conquered subject subclass) status in Islam which defines the limited rights of non-equals. I�ll point out there is no analog to dhimmi status in either Christianity or Judaism. The allowances for dhimmis is subject to the subservient behavior of non-Muslims (e.g. as defined in the Pact of Umar). This was established because initially, the islamists wide conquest made Muslims the minority in the lands they ruled, and the business and wealth of these lands could only be maintained through the trained skills and knowledge of the local non-Muslim inhabitants. 1400 years of Muslim domination in the Middle East and the Maghreb (Northern Africa-Spain) have demonstrated that businesses, property, assets, even children could too frequently be confiscated at whim.

And where is your resources??

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~