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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sign*Reader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2010 at 1:55am
Originally posted by drdoug drdoug wrote:

Another thing...

why are critics of islam so violently oppressed. Why cant muslims discuss things.

I watched this clip on a lady called Wafa Sultan... and the cleric debating with her acted like such a moron... you could tell he had never had an actual debate before... and then I found at that she has to live in hiding because of this st**id thing. How can islam ever grow with the world if anyone who holds different than the majority of people end up being threatened with violence. This clip lead to a bunch of other research.. and to be honest it makes me feel that islam cannot be true. I agree with the tenet of worshiping one God, but if something in the religion makes large masses of people uneducated and violent against opposing view points... thats just not a plus. Look at the jews..(Oh Yea! read the following treatise...Where do you live?)  they don't kill people every time they disagree with them...(No shxt, Israel used stolen British and other European passports to send her killers to carry out the assassination in Dubai...I guess the survivors of holocaust are untouchableWink) in fact no one is a bigger critic of jews than jews...(Of course who else can ) I just don't get this. I really was feeling islam could be true but if converting to islam makes you like that then I don't see why God would want that from me.

I am afraid it was waste of time of the forum members valuable time and you were just trolling...No one knows for sure!
So Wafa is your ideal, some choice!

Wafa Sultan�s Lies Refuted

I challenge you to read this before coming back!

http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/open.htm





Edited by Nausheen - 12 May 2010 at 7:15pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sign*Reader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2010 at 1:44am
Originally posted by drdoug drdoug wrote:

Hello Islamicity,
I have been off and on interested with islam for many years now. The thing that is intellectually refreshing about Islam is that its absolutely monotheistic... in every possible way. The trinity is hard to swallow, it could be true.. I mean God is God and can do what he wants... but I do admit that it is something I don't know if I believe.

I almost admire religious devotion amongst muslims. They and the LDS are the only ones who take their religion seriously.

I have some serious questions about islam. I don't intend these questions with any disrespect, but to be honest I have heard some bad things and would appreciate them answered. It is not the theology of islam that I have a problem with, its the morality (or so it appears). In the same way, its not the morality of christianity I oppose, its its theology.

Perhaps you can help me with one/any of these

1. Why did Muhammad get to have so many wives, when his followers only got 4? I have heard that God told Muhammad to get at least one of his wives and she was originally married to another man... any truth to it?
I think others have given enough background about this...All I can add is  Mhmd (saw) was a uniquely exceptional man who was just not in demand by his male companions only but also by women too who wanted him and only lawful way for them was to be a wife...who later  on became the helpers in teaching other women folks the fundamental practices of the religion... How else the rules in running an Islamic household in contrast to pagan's would be known? They were his equal partners in suffering the pangs of hunger and vows of poverty while sex may be the only matter on your mind this late on the time line! 
The other woman Zainab(r) wanted to marry Mhmd(s) in the first place but thing took a detour and also became a no adoption but foster only case law... 

2. I heard that there was some female poet who was insulting Muhammad and Muhammad had one of his followers kill he... is this true?
You don't need to be vague; Yes It was Asma who had said in her lyrics "Is there no man of pride who would attack him(Mhmd.sa) by surprise ...And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him" i.e., assassination instead of a battle...She got what she asked for that helped her tribe see the light and power of the truth and became Muslims!
 

3. What is the deal with all of the violence amongst muslims.. i dont mean against the US or Israel, but I mean the violence against each other.      
It is common place for muslims to bomb each other.
You should know being a Dr of whatever it is divide and rule colonial / neo colonial paradigm, the Muslims in bondage are reacting in haphazard way...I am surprised at this question! Can you list the chronology of the bombing that you are talking about? Then we can get to some conclusion...Have you seen the destruction in Greece?
If Iraq or Afpak is on your mind; My question would be who invaded who and who pushed it?

Please do not confuse Islam with the situation the Muslim people are in... bondage in one sort or the other!
You must know the Muslim world was divided up post WW I * II into dozens of western vassal states to exploit their resources as needed basis or you are feigning being simple!
Bombing each other reminds me of some great wars like WWI & II who were the belligerents in those?

4. What about monotheistic non muslim religions, such as judaism and sikhism. They also only believe in one God, so why not them? I know for a fact that they are both expressly monotheistic... Gurus are not considered Gods and jews are absolutely monotheistic.
You don't want me to dissect hybrid (Sikhism=Islamic Sufism +some Hinduism) or the derivative(Judaism) religions? Humanistic Judaism is non theistic...
BTW India and its neighbor Persia's soils have been quite fertile in producing the hybridsWink
As for Muslim belief is concerned the true religion for the Israelite was Abrahamic creed...submission to one God's worship i.e.,Islam and new set of laws after coming out of Pharaoh's slavery ...and broad casting that message worldwide...Rather the Israelite selfishly turned this into an ethnocentric elite class; monotheism was not always followed in practice and that gave rise to trinitarianism! Moses brought no Judaism and my next door neighbor is no God worshiping Jew...his god is mammon!

So is the God of Wall Street!
When they wake up in the morning they say they are so glad that were not made a gentile!

5. How can Islam preach "no compulsion in religion" when non muslims are taxed? When converting out of islam is a capital offence? And when in many muslim countries evangelism of non muslim religions is a crime.
Let's not be facetious, who would mind to stay out of military draft by paying some tax?
 I would ask your domicile before further discussion on the tax matters!

I have no problems with people who are not practicing Muslims to declare that they are out! They are just a weak link in the rope... It would be capital crime when a person was acting treacherously and spying for the enemy that is not too difficult to understand agents do get executed, don't they?

The European colonial occupiers of Muslim lands  tried everything in their power through their
clergy to evangelize their subjects but without much success... They had to leave huge empty cathedrals behind!
I thought you had some straight forward questions; these quibble are not worth my time!
 I am sorry one of the famous evangelists Franklin Graham was dis-invited from the Pentagon's prayer meet cuz of their typical bad mouthing the prophet and Islam on regular basis...

Again, I know all of these questions are harsh... but they are legitimate questions. If I appear ignorant or ask something st**id.. I apologize.

Thanks,
Doug

I was asked to help edify few misunderstandings posed in your quandaries about Islam and it's Prophet (saw).


Edited by Sign*Reader - 12 May 2010 at 6:55pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2010 at 10:42pm
Thanks for reply. If that is the case then that is very reasonable... I dont get it though. So you are allowed 4 wifes and sex with women who are leaving their husbands because they are fighting against muslims...

so can you ever have a relationship with more than 4 women in any way shape or form? I dont understand why the wording is like that

Thanks,
Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2010 at 8:17pm
Another thing...

why are critics of islam so violently oppressed. Why cant muslims discuss things.

I watched this clip on a lady called Wafa Sultan... and the cleric debating with her acted like such a moron... you could tell he had never had an actual debate before... and then I found at that she has to live in hiding because of this st**id thing. How can islam ever grow with the world if anyone who holds different than the majority of people end up being threatened with violence. This clip lead to a bunch of other research.. and to be honest it makes me feel that islam cannot be true. I agree with the tenet of worshiping one God, but if something in the religion makes large masses of people uneducated and violent against opposing view points... thats just not a plus. Look at the jews.. they don't kill people every time they disagree with them... in fact no one is a bigger critic of jews than jews... I just don't get this. I really was feeling islam could be true but if converting to islam makes you like that then I don't see why God would want that from me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haris30432 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2010 at 12:50am

Dear Doug,

I am sorry, I still don't get it. So sex with women is allowed even if you aren't married if their husbands are fighting against muslims? Every source, including islamic website, I have looked at interprets "right hand" as slaves... is this not correct?
 
Im not sure i fully understood your question.And may be i wasnt very clear to you  either :D.
 
Like i ve already said in my previous post,the verses have nothing to do with casual sex.As i understand,believers were hesitating to  marry woman who fled from their disbelieving husbands and joined the believers.God made it clear to them that they are allowed to" marry " them as they had become believers and did not belong to the disbelievers .This may also apply to the slave women.Since theyve fled from the disbelieving masters and joined the believers,Muslims were allowed to "marry" them giving them their due dowries without permission from the masters(permission from the masters was required other wise).
 
Surah 60,verse 10 clearly speaks about those who sought "Asylum" with Muslims.So by "right hand possess" its clear that it is talking about those who had fled from the disbelievers and sought asylum with muslims and this can be anyone slave or free.GOD does not advocate evil and vice.So any interpretation of the verses should only be done taking that into consideration.God only permits marriage not "casual sex" with slaves or asylum seekers.No where in the Quran can u see GOD permitting such an evil act.Be he Glorified.Subhanallah!
 
Peace!
 
 
 


Edited by haris30432 - 11 May 2010 at 1:15am
ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2010 at 7:32pm
Chrysalis,

Yes there are slaves in the world, it comes in different forms. Check this out:
http://www.freetheslaves.net/Page.aspx?pid=375

I have read alot on the subject and it is truly, truly sad. Is it "officially" sanctioned by any govt? No. But over 27 million people are enslaved.


When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2010 at 6:45pm
Please pray for me. I am trying very very hard to find the religion of God. I wish he would just show me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2010 at 8:14am
Originally posted by haris30432 haris30432 wrote:

Peace,


2. I still dont understand why sex with female slaves is allowed.


Dr Doug...My understanding on this topic is that GOD does not allow casual�sex�at all and he never did whether it be with a free woman or with a� captive slave woman.And most importantly the verses are dealing with marriage not sexual relations.In 4:24 God prohibits marriage to a woman who is�already married except with�those women who have fled from�their disbelieving husbands who are at war with the believers.This is what� "those who�your right hand possess" means.And this is further explained in Surah 60:10.



In Case


of War

<FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=4><FONT face="Arial Narrow" size=4>

[60:10] <FONT face="Times New Roman">O you who believe, when believing women (abandon the enemy and) ask for asylum with you, you shall test them. GOD is fully aware of their belief. Once you establish that they are believers, you shall not return them to the disbelievers. They are not lawful to remain married to them, nor shall the disbelievers be allowed to marry them. Give back the dowries that the disbelievers have paid. You commit no error by marrying them, so long as you pay them their due dowries. Do not keep disbelieving wives (if they wish to join the enemy). You may ask them for the dowry you had paid, and they may ask for what they paid. This is GOD's rule; He rules among you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.




I am sorry, I still don't get it. So sex with women is allowed even if you aren't married if their husbands are fighting against muslims? Every source, including islamic website, I have looked at interprets "right hand" as slaves... is this not correct?


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