Problems in the Bible?

Mansoor_ali wrote:  Topic:Problems in the Bible?  I am going to represent some problems in Bible.I hope christians will respond logically.  If you read Gospel of Mark 14:1-11, Matthew26:1-13, John 12:1-8, and compare them then you will find mistakes.  Mark 14 and Matthew 26 say that woman poured the perfume on the head of Jesus Christ but John 12 says that she poured it on Jesus's feet.    Matthew 26 says that disciples of Christ were angry when they saw this but John 12 says that one of Jesus's disciples Judas Iscariot was angry when he saw this event.  So how christians will logically response?

Different observers and different observations.  Matthew and Mark do not say Jesus' feet were not perfumed, and if Matthew says there were angry disciples and John says Judas was angry where is the 'mistake'?

What this shows is that Matthew, Mark and John were written independently. 

Mansoor_ali wrote:  Topic:Problems in the Bible?  I am going to represent some problems in Bible.I hope christians will respond logically.  If you read Gospel of Mark 14:1-11, Matthew26:1-13, John 12:1-8, and compare them then you will find mistakes.  Mark 14 and Matthew 26 say that woman poured the perfume on the head of Jesus Christ but John 12 says that she poured it on Jesus's feet.  Matthew 26 says that disciples of Christ were angry when they saw this but John 12 says that one of Jesus's disciples Judas Iscariot was angry when he saw this event.  So how christians will logically response?

One issue that represents a huge problem is that even with the most ancient texts contained in the Christian collection, the earliests are nothing more than copies of copies of copies of an oral tradition without any method of "quality control" in the transmission. This lack of crtieria to maintain some kind of accuracy in the oral and written transmissions engenders serious questions: What did the copy look like that the earliest came from? What did the other copy look like? Without these answers, no one can claim how historical or how accurate the gospels are. All we can say is that we have an early copy that establishes the narrative in the third century, and no view of the written transmission anytime before that.  Furthermore, it has come to light that the early christian communities were extremely diverse in their ideas of Jesus and they would even differ on the gospel they would read. It is a historical fact that the consolidation of christian belief occured when the proto orthodox came out on top and then rewrote the history, including which books were "orthodox" and which were not.

 Different observers and different observations.  Matthew and Mark do not say Jesus' feet were not perfumed,

 It is your assumption.You have to confirm that Matthew and Mark say Jesus's feet were perfumed.


 and if Matthew says there were angry disciples and John says Judas was angry where is the 'mistake'?

 Matthew says disciples were angry but John says one of Jesus's disciples Judas was angry.

What this shows is that Matthew, Mark and John were written independently.

 I know.

 Remember, Mansoor, the Bible is not the Christian 'Qu'ran'.  It is the Christian Hadith, and just like Islam different reporters have different details in their observations.

 Hadiths may be wrong and may be correct.We have authentic Hadiths but at the same time we also have weak Hadiths,fabricated Hadiths.But this is not a case with Gospels.

 Christians believe that the Gospels were recorded by inspired men and that its contents are inspired. However, Muslims don't believe that those who transmitted or collected the hadith were inspired by God like how Christians believe for their Gospel authors.Thus, it wouldn't be a surprise to find mistakes in hadeeth even if they have an authentic chain of transmission .But for the Christian Gospels we should expect to not find any errors since those who transmitted them are supposed to be directly inspired by God.
 
 Visit:

 Are The Gospels Like The Authentic Hadith?
 The Hadith Vs. The Gospels.
 
 

I♥Jesus wrote:  Different observers and different observations.  Matthew and Mark do not say Jesus' feet were not perfumed,  It is your assumption.You have to confirm that Matthew and Mark say Jesus's feet were perfumed. No, it is obvious that both statements can be true.  and if Matthew says there were angry disciples and John says Judas was angry where is the 'mistake'?  Matthew says disciples were angry but John says one of Jesus's disciples Judas was angry. If Judas was angry, and another disciple was also angry, both statements are correct. What this shows is that Matthew, Mark and John were written independently.  I know.  Remember, Mansoor, the Bible is not the Christian 'Qu'ran'.  It is the Christian Hadith, and just like Islam different reporters have different details in their observations.  Hadiths may be wrong and may be correct.We have authentic Hadiths but at the same time we also have weak Hadiths,fabricated Hadiths.But this is not a case with Gospels.  Christians believe that the Gospels were recorded by inspired men and that its contents are inspired. However, Muslims don't believe that those who transmitted or collected the hadith were inspired by God like how Christians believe for their Gospel authors.Thus, it wouldn't be a surprise to find mistakes in hadeeth even if they have an authentic chain of transmission .But for the Christian Gospels we should expect to not find any errors since those who transmitted them are supposed to be directly inspired by God. Your Muslim sources are in error as to the way Christian read the Bible.  John Darby, an 18th century Englishman, promoted this 'inerrant' bible interpretation in America.   It has some adherents today, but this idea was unknown for the first 1800 years of Christianity. The purpose of the Christians scriptures is to teach the nature of righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16-17).  You will not find the gospels in error in this regard. The Qu'ran says there is truth in the Bible, and I believe it also says the Muslim is to seek out that truth using the Qu'ran as a criterion.  Clearly the Bible was preserved for Muslims as much as for Christians and Jews.  The Bible is the narrative of your prophets and their respective sharia.    What truths have you found in your Bible reading?

Interesting what you say, but I find it to be very different. Before I touched the Bible when I did not knew it, I could never imagine it to be inconsistent. This was the time I knew Quran very little as well.
It was later when I picked up the Quran and the Bible to read them and to know them. To my surprise, I could not believe lapses and inconsistencies I found in the Bible. It seemed a very different book than the people I knew who hold it sacred and follow it. Its position about God, Jesus, and Salvation (beside many other issues) suggest a) that the source behind it is more than one that are different in nature, or someone inconsistent, or b) those who put it together/wrote it has something to do with those issues that show opposing views within its contents. There is no way that two people given inspiration or revelation would contradict their single source in essence.
Because of my belief, Islam which tells me that it (what we collectively call the Bible) is from God, I rule out a), because I believe God to be all knowing and consistent. It must be (b) those who transmitted it, the writers or copiers and so forth.
I would start with bigger issues like who/what is God in the Bible, or the status of Jesus, or how and what the Bible teach about Salvation. I have personally found very clear problems with all three of those in the Bible, and they are for many of us the top of the list. The Quran on the other hand is not only very clear on those three but also absolutely consistent throughout. And by the way, they have been discussed here before. If you are unable to find those posts, we can start over, I don't mind digging through my notes for such an important issue, simply because new members visit and come to find their answers, yet it is not easy to trace and go through so many posts and files buried under.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 05 May 2010 at 1:18am