Jesus Will Return - Site

That is why encoding the Quran with a numerical miracle does not make any sense.  The Arabs were master poets and that is why the Quran was a miracle, as these Arabs could not imitate it. 


Edited by haris30432 - 13 May 2010 at 5:58am

Well.. i think u actually called atleast 6 out of 9 translations you presented initially as unclear and ambiguous and thats not "some" to me.

Wrong again!  My response was to your presentation of the translation by Pickthall.  How is that referring to all the others? 

Besides that, you were forced to admit that they are unclear and ambiguous only becoz you couldnt provide a logical explanation as to why jesus would be a witness against the POB when all of them would eventually believe in him.

I already provided an explanation of the verse.  In addition, I have checked other sources and it seems that the scholars were divided on the exact meaning of the verse, and this included even the Sahabah.  According to Maududi:

"...the purpose of the verse would be to affirm that at the time when the physical death of Jesus takes place, all the living 'People of the Book' would have come to believe in him (i.e. in his prophethood). Alternatively, the verse would mean that the prophethood of Jesus will become manifest to every person among the People of the Book just before he dies so that they will believe in him, but at a time when believing would be of no avail. Both these views have been supported by several Companions, Successors and outstanding scholars of Qur'anic exegesis. The truth of the matter is best known to God alone."

As you can see, there were varying opinions as to the actual meaning of the verse, and this would explain why modern translations vary as well.  What is clear, however, is that all the Sahabah agreed that the verse was talking about future events and was not referring to the Jews at the time of Jesus' mission.  I will prove this further below.

You simply came up with your own interpretation of the translations in a desperate attempt to make sense to them.And as if to cover up the exposure of the nonsense in these translations, you then decided to divert the topic of discussion here from Jesus's return to Rashad's messengership and the math miracle.

The diversion and desperation were on your part, as you could not prove the validity of RK's translation.  So, to compensate, you simply went into overdrive to show that the translations varied from translator to translator and therefore, it was they who were wrong!  This is clearly a fallacy. 

Much more reputable???On what basis??majority opinion??Or becoz they all some how validate centuries old hearsays??.One would only require the words " Wa-in min  and "illalayu/minanna" from the verse to understand that the translators have clearly mistranslated the verse.The word"illalayu/minanna" as correctly pointed out by one of the forum members(seeks hidayath) is in imperfect tense.

 

More hilarious comments!  So now you want to say that the verse is in the imperfect tense?  Seekshidayath was refuting your claim that the verse was in past tense!  Yet you still cling to your notion that the verse is talking about the past and to support that, you use an example from the English language?  How silly of you!  English and Arabic are very different languages, in case you are not aware.  The imperfect tense in Arabic is NOT the same as past tense.  Rather, it is the perfect tense which is the equivalent of the past tense.  According to MultimediaQuran:

"There are two main tenses in the Arabic language. 1.Perfect Tense, 2.Imperfect Tense or the Present Tense. The action is completed in the perfect tense. You may also call this as the past tense because the action is completed before the present so it belongs to the past. For example, one may say, "I ate". The action of eating was finished in the past. The past could be a few minutes or a few decades before the present time. Alternately, in the second tense, i.e., the imperfect, the action is still continuing. For example, you knock on the door and walk in. You see he is eating his meal. He says to you, "I am eating". The action is still continuing, he is still eating while talking to you. This is the present tense in English. It is also the "imperfect tense" in Arabic. You look at the table above and locate the pronoun "I" on the left column and follow it to the right to the "imperfect" column. You will see the verb, "aakulu". It means, "I am eating" or "I eat".

What about the future tense? Well, there is not such a thing as the future tense in Arabic. This is done by adding the prefix "sa" to the imperfect form of the verb. For example, let's look at the table above to find out the imperfect form of the verb "akala". It is "ya'kulu". Add the prefix "sa" to the "ya'kulu" you get, "saya'kulu" which means "He will eat"."

This proves once and for all that the verse is not talking in the past tense, as RK claimed.  Therefore, while the other translations differ in the wording and some are rather ambiguous, what we do know for sure is that they are at least not translating the verse in the past tense, which would be simply wrong.  Do yourself a favor and do some research on the Arabic language.    

Your statement  shows not just ur EGO but also your ignorance as well.RK was not sent to finish any unfinished business of Prophet Muhammad.His mission was something different which ofcourse you have not studied at all.And with the atittude that u are displaying im pretty much sure you wouldnt  be interested or even understand it.And so i dont wish to elaborate this matter here at this point and waste my precious time.

If RK had to be sent to finally reveal the great miracle contained in the Quran, which Muhammad (pbuh) brought to the world, than the logical conclusion is that it was RK's job to complete the full revelation of the Quran.  Not only that, RK even claimed that he was the representation of the Messiah and the Mahdi!  But wait a minute.  The concept of the Mahdi is found only in the Hadiths!  Didn't RK reject the Hadiths?  Before you say that RK never claimed to be the representation of the Messiah and the Mahdi, read the following on the Submitters website:

"Through Gabriel, I was commanded to make this announcement: after I die, millions of believers will know that I represent the Messiah the Jews have been waiting for, the Christ Christians have been expecting, the Mehdi the Muslims have been praying for.  I am God's messenger of the Covenant."

The website than makes the claim that none of these figures are to ever come (it should be pointed out that the Messiah and the Christ are the same figure) and that RK's arrival was actually predicted in the Quran, which contradicts what you have said.  This guy was clearly a liar and that is why the believers rightfully reject him.

It sounds like you are planning on running away!  Your words are crystal clear!

You have further displayed your EGO ,ignorance and disobedience to GOD by calling Prophet Muhammad the greatest messenger of GOD when GOD clearly commands believers not to make any distinction amoung the messengers of GOD(2:136,2:285,3:84,4:150,152).God alone has the right to give ranks to his messengers not his servants.

Yes you are right.  I will retract that part of my statement.

Prophet Muhammad had never studied the previous scriptures yet he spoke of Jesus,Moses,David,Abraham etc etc..coz such information contained in the Quran.However,he was not supported by any other miracles other than the scripture like Jesus,Moses etc...

But the ultimate miracle of the Quran was unknown to him.  The miracle of the Quran was that it could not be imitated.  You interpret that as referring to the code.  He had no idea that such a code existed.  How then was the Quran a proof of his prophethood?

Yeah well then how are they any good to be presented as proofs to disprove another translation ??And also you simply have now admitted that you picked up translations, the majority of which are unclear and ambiguous and which contain errors to prove that Jesus is returning.One can easily see how ridiculous it is!

 

First of all, we are talking about one specific verse!  Just because there are variations on that one verse does not mean we should reject all translations.  At least those translations got the grammar right, unlike the liar RK.  One can easily see how ridiculous it is to follow that man.