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haris30432
Senior Member Male Joined: 23 January 2010 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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You sound like a pouting child who just wants to repeat the same nonsense over and over again. I already refuted your bogus claim regarding 3:81. What a shock that God did not mention the "messenger" who would ultimately reveal the great miracle contained in the Quran! Oh yeah ,my apologies for repeating it to you..Shouldve remembered the below verses.
[6:39] Those who reject our proofs are deaf and dumb, in total darkness. Whomever GOD wills, He sends astray, and whomever He wills, He leads in a straight path. [43:40] Can you make the deaf hear; can you make the blind see, or those who are far astray? And for your info.. u didnt refute anything except use 3:84 to claim that since it doesnt include Muhammad 3:81 should be talking about Muhammad.This is nothing but nonsense as far as i see.3:81 clearly talks about a covenant taken from the Prophets and 33:7 also talks about the same covenant so its very clear to me that the verses are related and the messenger in 3:81 is RK.Edited by haris30432 - 13 May 2010 at 4:33am |
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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!
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haris30432
Senior Member Male Joined: 23 January 2010 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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That is why encoding the Quran with a numerical miracle does not make any sense. The Arabs were master poets and that is why the Quran was a miracle, as these Arabs could not imitate it.
Unfortunately again u fail to see light.So ur saying that the challenge and the miracle of the Quran is the richness and beauty of the Arabic in it???Well in that case the challenge wuld only apply to those who know Arabic.What relevance would this challenge have to the non arabs???How does this challenge apply to the non arabs???!!What is the point in challenging to produce a Surah in Arabic to over 95 percent of the world population when they dont speak arabic or have nothing to do with it???!So clearly.. the miraculous or unimitatable aspect of the Quran cannot be just Arabic.....
Quran is still a miracle and will always continue to be so till Yaumul Qiyamah... ofcourse only for those who believe!!
Concerning 10:20, it is yet another mistranslation. The key word is "Ghaib", which means the "unseen" not the "future".
If only you could quit nitpicking and look properly,u would see how that doesnt necessarily change the meaning of the verse in a big way.However,Im pretty much sure that if these translators knew anything about the math miracle of the Quran and the time of its revelation, they wouldve translated it exactly the way God intended it to be.
Edited by haris30432 - 13 May 2010 at 5:58am |
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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!
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haris30432
Senior Member Male Joined: 23 January 2010 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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The meanings of the initials have been conjectured upon, but their ultimate meaning is left to God. Obviously, they were not meant to be clear. Ok so i think now u acknowledge that GOD did not reveal every thing in the Quran to Prophet Muhammad.In many verses (10:1,12:1,13:1,15:1,26:2,27:1) God called them signs or proofs of the Quran.It would make no sense at all for GOD to say that these initials are signs or proofs of the scripture if he never wanted anyone to know HOW??????!The fact is GOD does not make false proclamations in the Quran.God revealed this amazing miracle in 1974 exactly 1406(19x74) lunar years after the Quran's revealation.And surprisingly the reference of the miracle of "19" happens to be Surah "74" titled the "Hidden one" or "Hidden Secret" !!
The word in 13:1 is "ayat" which does not mean "letters" but "verses". This is another example of Khalifa altering the meaning to fit his own views.
The word Ayah has many meanings such as verses ,signs,proofs etc.. if u dont know it please check a dictionary or other translations."Letters" in the translation are in brackets refering to Alef,Lam,Ra which i assume u know are Arabic letters or alphabets..Read carefully please.
Edited by haris30432 - 13 May 2010 at 6:25am |
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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!
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islamispeace
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187 |
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Wrong again! My response was to your presentation of the translation by Pickthall. How is that referring to all the others?
I already provided an explanation of the verse. In addition, I have checked other sources and it seems that the scholars were divided on the exact meaning of the verse, and this included even the Sahabah. According to Maududi: "...the purpose of the verse would be to affirm that at the time when the physical death of Jesus takes place, all the living 'People of the Book' would have come to believe in him (i.e. in his prophethood). Alternatively, the verse would mean that the prophethood of Jesus will become manifest to every person among the People of the Book just before he dies so that they will believe in him, but at a time when believing would be of no avail. Both these views have been supported by several Companions, Successors and outstanding scholars of Qur'anic exegesis. The truth of the matter is best known to God alone." As you can see, there were varying opinions as to the actual meaning of the verse, and this would explain why modern translations vary as well. What is clear, however, is that all the Sahabah agreed that the verse was talking about future events and was not referring to the Jews at the time of Jesus' mission. I will prove this further below.
The diversion and desperation were on your part, as you could not prove the validity of RK's translation. So, to compensate, you simply went into overdrive to show that the translations varied from translator to translator and therefore, it was they who were wrong! This is clearly a fallacy.
More hilarious comments! So now you want to say that the verse is in the imperfect tense? Seekshidayath was refuting your claim that the verse was in past tense! Yet you still cling to your notion that the verse is talking about the past and to support that, you use an example from the English language? How silly of you! English and Arabic are very different languages, in case you are not aware. The imperfect tense in Arabic is NOT the same as past tense. Rather, it is the perfect tense which is the equivalent of the past tense. According to MultimediaQuran: "There are two main tenses in the Arabic language. 1.Perfect Tense, 2.Imperfect Tense or the Present Tense. The action is completed in the perfect tense. You may also call this as the past tense because the action is completed before the present so it belongs to the past. For example, one may say, "I ate". The action of eating was finished in the past. The past could be a few minutes or a few decades before the present time. Alternately, in the second tense, i.e., the imperfect, the action is still continuing. For example, you knock on the door and walk in. You see he is eating his meal. He says to you, "I am eating". The action is still continuing, he is still eating while talking to you. This is the present tense in English. It is also the "imperfect tense" in Arabic. You look at the table above and locate the pronoun "I" on the left column and follow it to the right to the "imperfect" column. You will see the verb, "aakulu". It means, "I am eating" or "I eat".
What about the future tense? Well, there is not such a thing as the
future
tense in Arabic. This is done by adding the prefix "sa" to the
imperfect
form of the verb. For example, let's look at the table above to find
out the
imperfect form of the verb "akala". It is "ya'kulu". Add the prefix
"sa" to
the "ya'kulu" you get, "saya'kulu" which means "He will eat"." This proves once and for all that the verse is not talking in the past tense, as RK claimed. Therefore, while the other translations differ in the wording and some are rather ambiguous, what we do know for sure is that they are at least not translating the verse in the past tense, which would be simply wrong. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the Arabic language. |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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islamispeace
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187 |
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Perhaps to those who don't know enough about the language itself, such as yourself. RK has been exposed as a fraud so many times. I will show more examples of why he was a fraud and a liar. Keep reading!
Well, for one thing, it gets buried in a tomb! And yet, there is no evidence of his tomb ever being found. There are traditions galore about the burial places of the previous prophets and messengers, including Ibrahim and Moses (peace be upon them), but no such tradition exists with regard to Jesus (pbuh), unless of course you believe the other heretical sect known as the Ahmadiyyas. Also, the body does not completely disintegrate. You would still find bones.
There is no guess work about it! Allah (swt) clearly had much more planned for Jesus. Why else was he chosen to be the Messiah (al-Masih)? |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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islamispeace
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187 |
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If RK had to be sent to finally reveal the great miracle contained in the Quran, which Muhammad (pbuh) brought to the world, than the logical conclusion is that it was RK's job to complete the full revelation of the Quran. Not only that, RK even claimed that he was the representation of the Messiah and the Mahdi! But wait a minute. The concept of the Mahdi is found only in the Hadiths! Didn't RK reject the Hadiths? Before you say that RK never claimed to be the representation of the Messiah and the Mahdi, read the following on the Submitters website: "Through Gabriel, I was commanded to make this announcement: after I die, millions of believers will know that I represent the Messiah the Jews have been waiting for, the Christ Christians have been expecting, the Mehdi the Muslims have been praying for. I am God's messenger of the Covenant." The website than makes the claim that none of these figures are to ever come (it should be pointed out that the Messiah and the Christ are the same figure) and that RK's arrival was actually predicted in the Quran, which contradicts what you have said. This guy was clearly a liar and that is why the believers rightfully reject him. It sounds like you are planning on running away! Your words are crystal clear!
Yes you are right. I will retract that part of my statement. |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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islamispeace
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187 |
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Screw his reasons! I am more interested in why he contradicts the revelation he claimed to be upholding? The Quran says that Allah would protect it from corruption. So how in the hell did Satan manage to introduce two false verses? This blasphemous statement further exposes RK as a false messenger and a liar! Furthermore, there is no historical evidence that any verses were added to the Quran. It has been preserved in the exact condition as it was revealed. RK knew this but he was so convinced by his ego that he was the messenger of God and that there was a code in the Quran, that he was willing to alter the accepted history.
All of that is unnecessary as the whole idea of a "temporary god" runs counter to the message of the Quran. There is no "temporary god". There is only the One, True God, Allah. That is it. RK introduced a foreign concept into the divine text, and became a liar and blasphemer. Allah will judge him as He pleases. I can see that you have no real responses to these embarrassing and shocking truths regarding RK. I would advise you to review your links to his false cult. He was lying to you and to all of his followers. Do not be a pawn in his heretical schemes. |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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islamispeace
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187 |
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But the ultimate miracle of the Quran was unknown to him. The miracle of the Quran was that it could not be imitated. You interpret that as referring to the code. He had no idea that such a code existed. How then was the Quran a proof of his prophethood?
First of all, we are talking about one specific verse! Just because there are variations on that one verse does not mean we should reject all translations. At least those translations got the grammar right, unlike the liar RK. One can easily see how ridiculous it is to follow that man. |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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