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Saladin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saladin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2009 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by TheGuy TheGuy wrote:

If Solomon was the wisest man in the world, and he made use of Djinn, he must have known something we obviously do not. If I recall correctly, it was a woman that led him astray, not a Djinn?


Thats perhaps Biblical account but the Quran says :

"And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon. Solomon disbelieved not; but the devils disbelieved,...." (2:102)

'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2010 at 8:47am
Originally posted by TheGuy TheGuy wrote:

Ok, but "fortune-teller" doesn't = Djinn necessarily, so I have to completely disregard that as extraneous information.


Hi, well, hadith mention that some fortune-tellers claim to have "learnt from the Jinn" - hence I thought I'd mention bcz of the relation.

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I sense that the interpretation is negative, but if you actually read the text it doesn't seem negative?  Maybe I am just an optimist.  "helped me against him" doesn't mean he was necessarily evil?  Maybe he was deliberately sent to test resolve or something, and a human needs to overcome that? 


Hmm well, I think its pretty clear that "helped me against him" means that the Jinn was clearly a bad or evil force. Even if it were a test.

Quote I'm starting to get the impression that the Islamic faith treats Djinn as Christians treat Angels, they exist, but not really cause no one ever sees or hears from them and those that do are loony or something.  :P


Will kinda agree to that -  in the sense that although we believe in in the Jinn's existence - we live our lives ignoring them, and don't make any attempts to meddle in their affairs or contact them. Islamically speaking (you will of course have your own opinions on this) we don't do that because we believe had that been necessary, we would have been taught to do so, or told ways to do so. On the other hand, most ahadith speak of Jinn in a warning tone.

Anyway - since we cannot see them or observe them, that kind of puts us at a disadvantage, since how would you know whether the Jinn you have managed to contact is a good one, or an evil one, with a personal agenda ? They on the other hand have the advantage of observing us and knowing us wayyyyy better than we do.

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You made an interesting point about focusing on what matters, but that's kinda subjective, what matters to one man may not matter that much to another.  I am like Solomon, I seek to be wise, and you can only really be wise by understanding many things which also includes the unseen like Djinn and Angels and etc.


It is good to seek knowledge and wisdom, but within the limits of practicality. Some ventures are kinda futile and can get obsessive to the extent of turning harmful (too many Ghost-hunter, spirit-obsessed stories out there - ppl go loony). Anyway, I think you probably have had quite enough of that from my side already. Smile Sorry couldn't be of more help in helping u understand them better . . .

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I haven't actually read the Quran.. does it differentiate between angels and demons like the Bible.. or demons are fallen angels in that as well?  That may help clarify things.


Yes, Quran differentiates b/w Angels & Demons.

Angels were created from "Nur" (Divine Light). Angels are "hardwired" to Allah's commands and do not have a free-will of their own to go against Allah's orders. They all have functions or "jobs". The 4 famous angels (or "arch-angels") (same as the Christian concept):
Mikaeel: in charge of rain
Israfeel: will blow the trumpet on day of judgement
Izraeel: takes away life
Jibraeel: who has always bought Allah's Books & Message to the Messengers.

Would like to mention that we don't attribute these powers to the Angels themselves, rather believe that Allah has delegated these tasks to them.

Demons or "the Devil" are not fallen angels - they are of the Jinn. (i.e. same species). Since they have a free-will they choose to be good or evil like us Humans. The leader of all these "demons" or "devils" i.e. "Satan" is called "Iblees" in Islam. Hence there are those Jinn that choose to reject Allah's orders and side with Iblees (a.k.a Satan)

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My question after you post, Chrysalis, is why would every man be appointed a Jinn?  That makes me more curious.


"Appointed a Jinn" means that there is a devil/Jinn accompanying every man, who tries to lead that person astray. This is a test. . . we are supposed to ignore & reject that devil/Jinn and stay on the path Allah taught us. This is the explanation I read or heard a long time ago - if I come across a source/better explanation - will post.

Are you thinking of trying to contact that personal Jinn of yours ? Wink. (Kidding!) Hehe.

Anyway - if you succeed do tell us. (not kidding!)

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2010 at 12:40pm
Yes, I will attempt to communicate with this being, maybe it knows why it is appointed to me.  If that is really the case, then it shouldn't be far from me, as I'm sure it's been appointed to observe me or something so it should be very near almost all the time in some way.  That will be my first attempt. 

I would rather not say what series of events led to me pursuing this path, but I will say that I believe a Djinn has been attempting to communicate with me at night in my dreams(I have waking/lucid/conscious dreams every night, I am not unconscious as most ppl are), and asking me to write a book about Djinn so humans can better understand them.
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2010 at 8:48am
Originally posted by TheGuy TheGuy wrote:


I would rather not say what series of events led to me pursuing this path, but I will say that I believe a Djinn has been attempting to communicate with me at night in my dreams(I have waking/lucid/conscious dreams every night, I am not unconscious as most ppl are), and asking me to write a book about Djinn so humans can better understand them.


Interesting !!! Was it a positive/optimistic dream ? (You believe in God right?)
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2010 at 11:35am
The dreams had NO negative aspect whatsoever.  The dreams have been like talking to a wise old person, except the Djinn in the dream isn't "old" looking, though seems to be a couple hundred years old chronologically.  It seems to me that they just want humans to understand them, they want to be a part of creation as much as most of us want to, and of course I'm not referring to beings that have destructive natures on either side who can't control creation so they want to destroy it. 

In every dream so far, and I've had about 3, the main theme was me learning about the Djinn through this older female djinn(though she doesn't seem old by our standards of "aging" and etc.), writing a book about them, nature, and changing of a paradigm.  This all started occurring after a strange series of events, which involved the theme of Djinn.

I do not believe in God the same way religious or other people do, I have a different belief in the way things work.  I'd rather not try to explain my beliefs, as no one ever gets it, and I think everyone's understanding of creation is his and his alone.  Most of the world's problems stem from one man saying his perception of creation is right or better than another mans, so I'd rather avoid that.  That's not to say men can't share their perceptions and see what they can learn from another's perception, but any time someone tries to control anyone else they are trying to control creation and I see that as the real evil, one should not try to stop or control or destroy the unfolding of creation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sufi_observer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2010 at 10:29am
Originally posted by TheGuy TheGuy wrote:

I want to learn more about Djinn.  There are numerous resources for learning about Angels, but I have yet to really find anything about Djinn, and I would like to learn more about their history and current status.

Emilie Savage-Smith, editor. Magic and Divination in Early Islam. Grand Rapids: Ashgate Press, 2004. The introductory chapter, "Belief in Spirits Among the Pre-Islamic Arabs" describes the evolution of belief in Jinns in great detail. http://www.ashgate.com/default.aspx?page=637&calcTitle=1&title_id=4882&edition_id=7104

Celia Rothenberg. Spirits of Palestine: Gender, Society, and Stories of the Jinn. New York: Lexington Books, 2004. Focuses on modern beliefs and describes several first hand accounts of encounters with the Jinn. http://www.lexingtonbooks.com/Catalog/SingleBook.shtml?command=Search&db=^DB/CATALOG.db&eqSKUdata=0739106422
 
Constance Padwick, "Notes on the Jinn and the Ghoul in the Peasant Mind of Lower Egypt," Bulletin of the School of Oriental Studies 3.3 (1924), pp. 421-446. Includes interviews with people who encountered Jinns.


Edited by sufi_observer - 04 January 2010 at 10:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2010 at 12:36am
Thx Sufi, I've read the last one you linked, I did a search for it and found a pdf of it on a site.  Interesting to read it, though it seems to be more about superstition than the Djinn, and it's very negative in perspective. 

I'll try to find the other two at a library or something.  Though, neither of the other two sound like they contain anything much different, and I'm not interested in fiction as much as fact.  Nor in authors attempting to interpret culture or superstition. 




Edited by TheGuy - 05 January 2010 at 12:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2010 at 3:46pm
I've been trying to find more books and etc.  It seems obvious to me now, that no one actually knows anything about the Djinn that has put out anything publicly, all the books I found were based on research of the Quran(Koran?  I dunno the proper spelling) and writings(Sunna, etc.) that were based on interpretation of that book, but not necessarily contextually or factually accurate. 

So, that leaves 2 possibilities for actual fact finding of Djinn existence:

1)  Try to interpret or figure out something about them from the only factual account of their existence, the Quran, and personal accounts of those who actually have interacted with them.

2)  Attempt to contact a real one and hope that they are honest beings who are open to sharing about their "race"? of beings.

Many of the books out, merely add to the superstitious nature of humans who are weak and blame all negative things on everyone but themselves,  because they obviously do not want to take responsibility for their actions they made with their own free will.  I am not interested in this research of superstitions, I don't care what ignorant people who don't take responsibility for their own actions want to blame their misfortune on, I am interested in fact. 

From the verses in the Quran, at least translated into English, it doesn't appear to me that Djinn are evil beings that just run around causing trouble.  I refuse to take into account the writings that came after the Quran, as they are most likely interpretation and conjecture and out of context and not based on fact.  Obviously this Muhammad guy knew something, but that doesn't mean his followers or family also did, so..




Edited by TheGuy - 06 January 2010 at 3:52pm
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