illegal immigrants

martha wrote: Sister Chrysalis...I am grateful to you for your words. BUt I am disturbed when our brothers and sisters in Islam call non-muslims infidels and say they will go to hell. Do we try to correct them? We are no different to anyone in this life no matter what religion we follow. Yet I am corrected here for my comments it seems because I was critical of muslims not christians? It is all complex. The main issue it seems is my own personal view? I guess we don't need to worry ourselves on that.

I think we do try to correct or reprimand our zealous brothers and sisters - both on and off the forum. You may have noticed that with some other members here already. However, we can only say & do so much - at the end of the day, the other Muslim will do what they strongly believe in. We should however make sure the approach we are taking doesn't drive those people away from us and make them cling all the more to their 'beliefs'. I wonder if people told Omar Al Farooq, the recent attempted Bomber to go and do something about his 'strong feelings' against Americans... rather than cribbing and stop being a coward ? ? ? These are weighty statements that shouldn't be used carelessly on others.

Our societies tend to expel & exclude zealots, - which only aggravates their issues because they lose that sense of community/bond/humanity. This makes it all the more easier to commit acts of violence, because you can disassociate yourself with the victims. If they were handled gently and  shown concern etc, I am sure it would help reduce the wounds in their hearts by a great deal.

So yes, I agree we should try to correct them and help them.


Also, I don't know what all the hullabaloo is about using words like 'Kaafir'
 & 'Infidel'. Christians, Jews & Hindus are welcome to call me a Kafir & Infidel with respect to their beliefs. It just denotes that a person rejects a particular doctrine. It is a synonym for unbeliever/disbeliever. It is in no way a slur.

Also, I don't think that people comment on or criticize your opinions because you are critical of muslims - we do that do each other all the time. In fact, I for one appreciate you pointing out what you find to be an issue with the Ummah. You are part of it, hence it is not only your right but your responsibility to do so. Better to clean out our own closet rather than invite someone else to do so. . .

Walaikum asalam,

wisdomseeker, I hear what you are saying and you have explained it really well. My comment that these people would not see Jannah..I did not say I would decide that.

sister Hayfa..yes sure, Allah is most merciful. He is also just. He has to be because if He was not then all of us can excuse ourselves of our bad deeds. Allah can and will forgive who He choses, but for those judged guilty or at fault then there is also a punishment. Maybe I do not explain myself well these days. BUt It is unlikely that all the people involved in the Beslan seige had mental problems as the act was premeditated. BUt I agree that in certain instances people can be mentally unstable and interpret things wrong. So these people we should help if we can. And ALlah will judge them accordingly.
Hayfa, you said I often condemn other muslims. No, I am critical of muslims. Many times this is because we should not be so judgemental of non-muslims and should be patient. I have no need to be critical of Christians and we should help them understand about Islam,for those that reject it we can feel sorry for them. BUt it is not wrong to point out errors of our own brothers and sisters. So..it is not a case of condemning. Instead I would see it as helping. If we have Islam then we have fewer excuses to get it wrong.
Abraham Lincoln said 'he has a right to criticise who has a heart to help' So I do love my brothers and sisters in Islam. If I did not then I would bother less with my replies here. Of course people matter to me, but Allah is also just and I trust in Him most of all. Perhaps this is why I worded my previous post in that way.

Sister Chrysalis...I am grateful to you for your words. BUt I am disturbed when our brothers and sisters in Islam call non-muslims infidels and say they will go to hell. Do we try to correct them? We are no different to anyone in this life no matter what religion we follow. Yet I am corrected here for my comments it seems because I was critical of muslims not christians? It is all complex.

The main issue it seems is my own personal view? I guess we don't need to worry ourselves on that.

Assalamu alaikum,

Well..I think we are none to decide who is going to hell and who is going to heaven. I am not saying that what those muslims did was right....but what they did, how they did and why they did is a matter between them and Allah, when it comes to the matters of this world, we may use our sense of judgment and all the available evidences and then arrive at a decision or conclusion about that particular event,.....but when it is about an eternal judgment, that of the last day, of heaven and hell...then we can just not say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell....that is between that person and Allah. We do not know and hence must not arrive at conclusions.

Can we tell for sure, if we are going to heaven? No we cannot, if one does, then one blasphemes....coz he is trying to claim knowledge to that, which is with Allah alone.

May Allah guide us all surely He guides whom He wills.

Walaikum asalam,

We are taught, are we not, that wrongdoers do not get to Jannah? I am just re-enforcing that. I also firmly believe it too with regards to this topic.

It is irrelevant who actually killed the children. The muslims went in with the intention of murder, with bombs strapped to their bodies, with feet on detonators.

I am aware of the grievances these people had, that the Russians knew about it etc etc, but no one can say the Russians told them to actually go ahead and beseige the school.

This is not a case of saying I know what Allah knows. Of course I do not. But black is black, white is white, there is no grey area for this as far as I am concerned.