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Sh. Al Azhar's Niqab Ban

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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2009 at 7:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sign*Reader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2009 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Meditations Meditations wrote:

Originally posted by Sign*Reader Sign*Reader wrote:

Hosni who himself happens to be on the Zionist payroll...


AsSalam Alaykoum dear

Even though I'm in no way fan of Mr. Mubarak or agree to his actions, I think islamically,  we should not base make such accusations without clear indisputable evidence, not based on doubts, even though it may look clear

And God know best

AsSalam Alaykoum

I am trying to decipher your strange argument ..what are you telling me? even though it may look clearConfused, This is internet forum for God sakes!
God knows best of course but us humans will never know what he knows...

in Hosni's case US tax payers knows how much and why his repressive and dictatorial junta gets billions of dollars US dole and that is to protect the Zionist's state's eastern flank...Period.
anyone can Goggle this, there is panoply of evidence about the aid going to Hosni for repressing the people of Egypt is unequivocal, shedding any doubts what so ever...what is a he getting paid for?

The proof of performance for his Zionist American dole that did rankle me the most was during Zionist entity's attack last year on the poor helpless Gazan's enclave and his Egyptian police stood as prison guards instead of helping somehow... to tee us in California off when some medical aid via Viva Palestina/George Gallaway was sent his police raised all kinds of hurdles at the entry point in Egypt to discourage future assistance efforts...what else does one need to have an opinion about which side Hosni is on? What the Zionist's fire power couldn't raze in Muslim lands; their fiat dollar press would surely achieve in destroying the souls leaving the body intact!
Rest my case for the jury....
Salaam alykum




Edited by Sign*Reader - 12 October 2009 at 3:50pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote durrani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2009 at 4:36pm
peace and blessings of all be upon u..

whilst the meaning of hijab is that to conver up urself its not just waring a headscarf..and y we cover up ourself so that strangers shud not see us.becuase of the fear of evildesires that cud eveolve.and the main attractive and appealing part of body is "face".if u show it then u can show ur whole body becuase the primary aspect is over ..
as miss hidayah said..was that mufi not a stranger.and for ur kind info for the people out here.y having a beard is haram in egypt.
.y ppl who abode in saudi arabia grow long beards and as the day he has to leave he cuts.becuase if u have beard and landed in egypt police will catch u and take u in custody and sk u to register..
the country where basic islamic right which is the practice of all the prophets is being banned and cockeyed..do u expect this muftis to spoke islamic sahin ahadith..and fatwas i pity those who follow blindly ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icforumadmin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2009 at 9:45pm
 

OPINION
Death-knell for the face-veil? Not so
By Rahla Khan

There is a land beyond the realm of outrage, where one is automatically (and mercifully) transported when faced with an atrocity that surpasses one�s worst expectations and fears. There is a silent space where the mind retreats, numb and stunned, until it regains its faculties and is able to furnish some reaction against the perpetrator, or defend itself.
I realized this, when horror-struck, I read the first reports of the incident involving the current head of Al-Azhar University at Cairo, Sheikh Mohammed Tantawi and his verbal abuse of a veiled girl student during a tour of her school in Nasr city, which subsequently made headlines all over the world earlier this week.
Apparently, the Sheikh believes that the face-veil is a cultural construct and has no basis in Islam. In an attempt to convey his opinion (and perhaps convince the student of its validity), he allegedly had the hapless girl�s teachers forcibly remove her face-veil in front of him after she refused to do so on her own, while he lectured her on the redundancy of wearing a face-veil in an all-girls class; blithely ignoring the fact that she was wearing a face-veil only on that particular day since she was in the presence of a non-Mahram male stranger � the Sheikh himself.
Following the global reaction to the incident, Sheikh Tantawi has denied reports in the Arabic press that he had commented negatively on the girl�s physical appearance, or said that he knows Islam �better than those who begot her,� but by then, the damage was done � not so much to the validity of the Islamic face-veil � but to his own credibility as the ostensible �highest authority for over a billion Sunni Muslims�.
The incident does not raise questions regarding the status of the face-veil in Islam � the opinion of Muslim jurists unambiguously ranges from considering it Wajib (obligatory, as in the Hanbali, Shafi�I and Maliki schools of jurisprudence) to Mustahabb (recommended, in the Hanafi school of jurisprudence), to Mubah (permissible) according to the Ijtihad (individual interpretation) of some of the more liberal modern scholars. What emerges is proof of the speciousness of the claims that an individual or an organization can be the �mouthpiece� of Islam.
Muslims are not, and have never been a monolithic nation, who blindly follow the opinions of scholars � no matter how venerable or knowledgeable � if their opinions contradict the words and spirit of the Qur�an and the Sunnah (tradition) of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). And in this instance, by issuing an opinion that places the face-veil outside the pale of Islam, which goes against the agreed upon exegesis of the Qur�anic verses of Hijab (Islamic covering); the historically recorded practice of the wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the women Companions; the collective understanding and consensus of the Companions; and the opinion of a majority of Islamic jurists, Sheikh Tantawi has done just that.
While those familiar with the Sheikh�s propensity for harboring and voicing �strange� opinions (he has in the past supported a ban on the Hijab in public schools in France) may find it easy to brush off his latest faux pas, the incident has undoubtedly provided fresh fodder for neo-cons, Islamophobes and �modernist� Muslims.
These groups have long targeted the face-veil as a symbol of �separation�, �oppression� and �debasement,� and to their delight, they can now quote a Muslim scholar � the head of a world-renowned and esteemed Islamic university, no less � in support.
Many European leaders are quickly taking advantage of the much-publicized incident and Sheikh Tantawi�s proposal to ban the face-veil in girls� hostels and schools associated with Al-Azhar in Egypt, to call for a ban on the face-veil at public institutions across the continent. On Tuesday, only one day after news of Tantawi�s possible ban hit the media, Italy�s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and his right-wing coalition presented a proposal to ban the niqab, or burqa. The anti-immigration Northern League party is leading the charge, and Italian politicians are now quoting Tantawi in support of their goal.
The party�s proposal would amend an anti-terrorism law of 1975 that forbids anyone in the country from making their identification impossible. The current interpretation of the law allows for religious reasons as a �justified cause� to cover the face, but the possible law could end such interpretation. A party member, Roberto Cota was quoted as saying �we are not racist and we have nothing against Muslims, but the law must be equal for everyone.� People of Freedom Member of Parliament, Barbara Saltamartini, said that �banning the burqa cannot be considered anti-Muslim because it is not obligatory in Islam,� echoing Tantawi�s sentiments.
In Canada, the Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) is adding its voice to the clamor for banning �the wearing of masks, burqas and niqabs in public� and has urged Ottawa to introduce legislation to this effect. In a gloating opinion piece titled �Burn your Burka� published in the National Post on Oct. 9, Tarek Fatah, the erstwhile head of the organization urged the country to outlaw this �terrible tribal custom� and �insult to the female gender,� which �reflects a mode of male control over women� and is a practice whose �association with Islam originates in Saudi Arabia, which seeks to export the practice of veiling � along with other elements of its extremist Wahhabist brand of Islam.�
Capitalizing on the general ignorance regarding Islamic injunctions, he urges his readers who �have any doubt about this issue, they should take a look at the holiest place for Muslims � the grand mosque in Makkah. For over 1,400 years, Muslim men and women have prayed in what we believe is the House of God. And for all these centuries, female visitors have been explicitly prohibited from covering their faces� � conveniently forgetting to add that this is an explicit exception allowed for Umrah and Haj � not the norm!
Certainly, this is not the first time that the face-veil has been the subject of public attack and debate and one doesn�t expect it to be the last. In Egypt alone, the history of polemicists exchanging verbal punches goes back to over a century, with Kasim Amin�s Tahrir el-Mara�a (Liberation of Woman) and the counter argument of Talat Harb�s Tarbiet el-Mara�a wal-Hijab, (Educating Women and the Veil).
But unlike the past, where even detractors of the face-veil assumed a respectful demeanor while engaging Muslims, one gets the impression that modern attacks are triggered by frustration at the increasing numbers of Muslim women who are discovering and adopting the precepts of their religion, despite the aggressive propaganda against it.
Sometimes this frustration masquerades as �fear� of spreading extremism in society; at other times it wears the mask of solicitude and concern for �oppressed women�.
It is only very rarely that the real face � of boorish hatred and bigotry � peeps out from behind the charade of veiled intentions and words, and when it does, it is an appalling sight, one that we should be prepared to confront in the frequent face-offs to come. � SG

Admin: This post was by Abu Aisha, that accidentally been deleted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saladin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 6:59am

Veiled reasons

The grand sheikh of Al-Azhar stirred troubled waters when he told an 11-year-old pupil at a girls-only school that there was no need for her to cover her face, reports Reem Leila

Click to view caption
Khaled El-Fiqi captures an exclusive photo of Tantawi asking the student to remove her face veil

Although the number of women wearing the niqab in Egypt is unknown, it is certainly growing. You need simply to stroll along the street to see that. So when the Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar Mohamed Sayed Tantawi complained that an 11-year-old girl was wearing the niqab inside a girls-only school during a visit to classes on 3 October -- the first day of the new term -- his action was guaranteed to provoke controversy. Some reports allege that he told the girl to remove her face veil after which he asked her what she would have done had she been pretty.

In response to the growing furore, Tantawi said in a press conference on 8 October that while he respects "women and their freedom to dress in whatever they want, niqab is a tradition and has nothing to do with Islam". He denied allegations that he had told the girl that he was a greater authority on Islam than either her or her parents, or that he had otherwise commented on her appearance.

Following Tantawi's lead, the Supreme Council of Al-Azhar decided on 7 October to ban students and teachers in all of its affiliated schools and university hostels from wearing the niqab on the grounds that they are single sex institutions.

The Supreme Council of Al-Azhar said that while Al-Azhar does not oppose the niqab, it added that only a minority of Muslim scholars consider it an Islamic obligation and declared its opposition to "imprinting the dress code in the minds of girls".

On 9 October Minister of Higher Education Hani Hilal declared the niqab would no longer be permitted inside women's hostels at public universities for "security reasons". Hilal said that while he would not "prevent female students from wearing the niqab inside public universities or classes" they could do so only after uncovering their faces on entering university premises so that security guards could check their identities.

The decision to ban the niqab inside hostels, he said, followed a number of incidents in which men had been caught entering hostel premises in female guise.

"I took this decision to protect students who are my responsibility," Hilal said, calling on university presidents to implement the new directive.

Both Tantawi and Hilal maintained that females who wish to wear the niqab do so because they do not want to be seen by men, so there is no need for them to cover their faces as long as they are inside classrooms and hostels assigned to females only.

Amna Nuseir, professor of Islamic Sharia at Al-Azhar University, supports Tantawi, arguing that niqab is neither a Quranic obligation nor included in Prophetic Sunna.

"Face-veiled women must remove their niqab for daily prayers, and while performing the hajj and omra rituals. Why, then, one wonders, do they desire to retain it as they go about their daily business?" asked Nuseir.

Abdel-Moeti Bayoumi, a member of the Islamic Research Centre (IRC), points out that there is nothing to prevent "Muslim women from showing their faces and hands". He backed Hilal's assertion that allowing the niqab in academic institutions causes a security dilemma.

Muslim Brotherhood MP Hamdi Hassan criticised Tantawi's "anti- niqab statements" and objected to the allegedly offensive way Tantawi had spoken to the girl.

"Tantawi's attitude embarrassed the student in front of her classmates. Religious figures should show kindness when advising people."

Female students wearing niqab protested against the ban on 7 October in front of a Cairo University hostel.

"I am a face-veiled student who comes from Tanta governorate. I have no other place to live in. Now that I am banned from staying at the university's hostel, where am I supposed to go?" asked Nahla Ibrahim. She said the students had agreed to show their faces to a female security guard at the entrance gates, but none were available.

Hoda El-Sayed insisted that putting on a niqab or not is a matter between the individual and God. "I am a Muslim female who is seeking greater reward from God. Why do they want to deprive me of this?" she asked.

The Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights (EIPR) issued a statement defending the right of female students to wear whatever they please. In a statement to the press Hossam Bahgat, chairman of EIPR, said that while the initiative would object to any suggestion that the face veil was obligatory it would defend the right of individuals to adopt the dress codes they deemed appropriate.

"The decision to ban the face veil is discriminatory. It contradicts those parts of the Egyptian constitution dealing with citizenship rights and equality."

In 2004 the American University in Cairo (AUC) provoked a similar outcry after prohibiting students wearing the face veil from entering the university campus. In 2007 Helwan University was criticised when university security guards prohibited female students wearing the face veil from entering university hostels. In the same year, Minister of Religious Endowments Hamdi Zaqzouq came under attack for dismissing an employee from a meeting after she refused to remove her niqab.

 
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 8:18am
Both Tantawi and Hilal maintained that females who wish to wear the niqab do so because they do not want to be seen by men, so there is no need for them to cover their faces as long as they are inside classrooms and hostels assigned to females only.
 
Wearing niqab or not is a different topic of discussion, but why did this man, ask a muslimah to takeoff her niqab infront of him ?
 
And you know, what were his remarks after seeing her face ? Is this the way, so called SCHOLAR in Islam does ? You want girls not to cover when they are amongst females in the class {i agree do agree here}  on the other hand, you {men} enter a classroom, and still want them to uncover ?  Are you too a female ?Evil%20Smile {Am sorry, am very frustrated of this person}
 
 
 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 8:23am

Amna Nuseir, professor of Islamic Sharia at Al-Azhar University, supports Tantawi, arguing that niqab is neither a Quranic obligation nor included in Prophetic Sunna.

"Face-veiled women must remove their niqab for daily prayers, and while performing the hajj and omra rituals. Why, then, one wonders, do they desire to retain it as they go about their daily business?" asked Nuseir

Am not a scholar, but a simple question to this Nuseir : " Why is then said,  that a muslimah, shud take-off her face-veil, while Hajj  or Umrah, or while offering salah. Does this not explain us, that in other times, its essential ? Simple application of logic. Also, how cud she say that its not proved by sunnah !
 
 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 8:38am

The decision to ban the niqab inside hostels, he said, followed a number of incidents in which men had been caught entering hostel premises in female guise.

"I took this decision to protect students who are my responsibility," Hilal said, calling on university presidents to implement the new directive.

What a great decision by the great scholar ! My foot !
 
Does he not have any other solution, than changing the law of Qur'an ? WHy can't he employ few women who would check, if they are the girls of same university. Identity cards, can be of good use here ! Or any other step can be taken than banning face-veil ? It shud be left optional, than forcing a muslimah to take it off , by banning ?
 
A similar incident happened in my city during Ramzan, Principal of a girls college wanted girls to attend college without face-veil. Alhmadullilah, we protested, until she apologised. Though, she was a hindu, but she did admit her mistake. Media, was with us. Anyways, -- face-veil is not the issue right now, but to ban it or force anyone to take it off, that too when so called scholar demands such, is really worst !
 
 
 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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