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conversion to islam

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myahya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myahya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2009 at 8:10am

Moses: interesting!! when they talk about the truth, they are talking about they thougts about the truth! and when they say come and follow my Deen, they are talking about their own leaders!

If you mean Muslims, I think what ALL true Muslims would say in the first place is to follow the prophet (sawa). If you admit that the prophets are selected and sent by God (not humans), then the existence of any more holy leader has to be proved through the Holy book and sayings of the prophet (not from the thoughts of people). If the Holy book talks about the existence of holy leaders (apart from the prophet) then they exist, regardless of people’s thoughts.

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myahya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myahya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2009 at 8:12am

Pati: I believe in God, but in the Christian God. I don't believe in Allah, in Quran, for myself

Why do you think Allah in Quran is different from Christian God?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2009 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

I understand you fine word for word it's not your English believe me Ive heard it more broken you said "I don't feel I believe in Allah as my God "(What!)what you are saying is you dont believe in God,and you are learning Arabic.Oh! I forgot Prophet Isa (Alaihi Salam )is your god right..To answer your last question:If you obtain so-called knowlegde,REAL KNOWLEGDE of the deen of Al Islam (InshAllah)you would come to realize the Truth,plain and simple(InshAllah)and then if you choose to reject it thats all on you.I noticed you use the words I and my alot,It is Allah that gives you Knowledge and it is Allah that takes it away from you(WALLAHI!)Heres you answer to this question "why every muslim I know, think that if I study Islam I will turn into it sooner or later?" 17:107 - -

    قُلْ آمِنُواْ بِهِ أَوْ لاَ تُؤْمِنُواْ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْعِلْمَ مِن قَبْلِهِ إِذَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ يَخِرُّونَ لِلأَذْقَانِ سُجَّدًا (17:107)
    Baset - Hussari - Minshawi

Qul aminoo bihi aw la tuminoo inna allatheena ootoo alAAilma min qablihi itha yutla AAalayhim yakhirroona lilathqani sujjadan

Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Qur'an:belief in]

# 17:107 (Y. Ali) Say: "Whether ye believe in it or not, it is true that those who were given knowledge beforehand, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration, Search For: 17:111 - -

    وَقُلِ الْحَمْدُ لِلّهِ الَّذِي لَمْ يَتَّخِذْ وَلَدًا وَلَم يَكُن لَّهُ شَرِيكٌ فِي الْمُلْكِ وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ وَلِيٌّ مِّنَ الذُّلَّ وَكَبِّرْهُ تَكْبِيرًا (17:111)
    Baset - Hussari - Minshawi

Waquli alhamdu lillahi allathee lam yattakhith waladan walam yakun lahu shareekun fee almulki walam yakun lahu waliyyun mina alththulli wakabbirhu takbeeran

Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Allah:has no partner] [Allah:has no son] [Allah:magnify Him] [Allah:Praise be to Him]

# 17:111 (Y. Ali) Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"

You Say "If I was Muslim, I would have knowledge, but as far as I am Christian, I am ignorant... Ok, thanks a lot for sharing!!Actually if (I) were you,I'd rather be ignorant than be in a state of Kuf


I want one thing to be clear: for you, as Muslims, every newborn baby is Muslim, and it's just because of the bad things of this society why he/she turns into other religion.

For me, as Christian, I was born a child, and my parents gave me the baptism hoping I was going to be Christian, but if I come to them telling that I feel another religion as my real religion, they would understand it, and they would NEVER REJECT ME. Why? Because for Christian, the knowledge comes not only from the Bible, from Jesus and from the priest and the Church, but from the rest of the people too. We accept to live inside a society, and we are part of it, respecting each other.

Why is such an insult for you if I tell you I don't believe in Allah as my God? It's easy to understand: I AM NOT MUSLIM, and I don't have any feeling taking me to Islam, I'm sorry. Not because I feel it as a bad thing, sure (if I did, I would not be here, I would not try to learn anything about Islam, even Arabic, and I would not go to the Mosque every week to help people!!!). I already have my believes, and the only thing I realise, is that you cannot understand/respect it. Well, I cannot do anything for you, and I thing that going on with this conversation is just to waste time.

You all are talking about the truth... well, for me, you are talking about YOUR TRUTH. The Islam is not the only way, and you have two options: to accept it and leave in peace, or to reject it and keep away from the rest of the world. God thanks, most of the Muslim I met are accepting it. It's your choice.
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Pati View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2009 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by myahya myahya wrote:

Pati: I believe in God, but in the Christian God. I don't believe in Allah, in Quran, for myself

Why do you think Allah in Quran is different from Christian God?


Hi,

I was just trying to explain that I don't feel I am Muslim, and after years of studying Islam, I didn't even have any small feeling taking me to the Islam. Opposite, I feel closer to God through the Bible.

For us as Christian, our God, Jews God and Allah are the same and only God.

Regards


No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Moses View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moses Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2009 at 4:19am
Originally posted by myahya myahya wrote:

when they talk about the truth, they are talking about they thougts about the truth! and when they say come and follow my Deen, they are talking about their own leaders!

If you mean Muslims, I think what ALL true Muslims would say in the first place is to follow the prophet (sawa). If you admit that the prophets are selected and sent by God (not humans), then the existence of any more holy leader has to be proved through the Holy book and sayings of the prophet (not from the thoughts of people). If the Holy book talks about the existence of holy leaders (apart from the prophet) then they exist, regardless of people’s thoughts.

Hi,
words of God are different from words of human. words of God coming down toward us to reveal us his will, but words of human come from his brain and are deeply different.
prophets are noting except messengers. when men was facing to them, they appeared in their eyes, much more than their own humanity.
although God continuesly says they are noting more than you as a human.
following the prophets means following the created human. and this is not the real invitation of God for us. he asked us to follow himself (GOD) not the created men, follow the creator of heaven and earth.
If you believe in Holy book, you would read it and follow every things that God will give you from his words as a gift. If you don`t believe in yourself and your ability to give this gift from his Holy book, then trust in power of God as the best author(decender) , who can give you every thing he wants and good for you, to give. then you are responsible for reading and try to understanding the Holy book.  
Satan will show us every worldly things, dressed and biautiful (as Quran says) to prevent us from going toward nonworldly or spiritual things. human is from this world. and you will not follow the human unless by mistake. God cleansed Muhammad and his family (Ahl al beit ) to act for God not for beeing God !! Muhammad did not say follow me. but you are teaching to people to follow him! aren`t you?!! You trust on people who has said to each other that Muhammad said follow me, then you are the believer of them, not God! You trust to people who explain Quran for you but do not trust on Quran and power of decender to explain himself for you, then you are believer of leaders (and make them "holy" in your mind to cover the truth for yourself) not believer of God. 
hopfully its not truth , I made a mistake, and you are a really believer of God .
Quran reveal for us a mistake of Muhammad( that for him is completely as a sin!) , and Muhammad himself tell thoes verses for the writers to write in Quran. Although by this we can see the most humility of a man who knows that he has been cleansed by holy spirit of God for give us the holy words, this confirm for us that only God is appropriate to be followed.
at the first of 66th chapter of Quran you can find that:
يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَآ أَحَلَّ ٱللَّهُ لَكَ‌ۖ تَبۡتَغِى مَرۡضَاتَ أَزۡوَٲجِكَ‌ۚ وَٱللَّهُ غَفُورٌ۬ رَّحِيمٌ۬ (١
means: O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives?
 
seeking to please your wives? not God?!
this is only one verse that God talking about sin of his Dear prophet.
as you see in following says that God is Forgiving and Merciful. but this is messages for us : first and the most important result: definitly and 100% Quran is from God himself! imagin: Muhammad is confessing to his sin by saying this verse infront of people who were writing the Quran and in front of the all people who after that are reading this book up to end of this world!!! who can do this ? !!! for this reason God call him the " KHAATAM"( which translate as "solitaire") of all prophets.
but the second result: he can do mistake and you can not trust on him as the same as you trust on God. 
Then the best reference for knowing the words of God is your heart when is not in love with this world and asking for knowledge and wisdome of God and also , continuing to read and act to the verses of Quran.
Not "Mr.They say" !! from the past to the present.
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myahya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myahya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2009 at 7:43am

Salams Pati,

Some of your feeling about Islam might be because of some invalid information from any source (books, media or other Muslims). For example, a newborn in Muslim family can not said to be Muslim because S/he is born in a Muslim family. In Islam everyone who claims that s/he is a Muslim should have already done enough research and should have already used their own intellect and be freely convinced before accepting Islam. In Islam, an individual who has been born and has grown in a Muslim family would have as much responsibility to do research for finding the truth as anyone else born in a non-Muslim family as any human being.

Pati: For us as Christian, our God, Jews God and Allah are the same and only God.

What I believe as a Muslim is the same. I fully respect your faith and feelings and your belief system. My questions are just for the sake of discussion and talking about our belief system. After your studies, are you convinced that Mohammad (sawa) is a prophet sent from God of Isa Masih (as), Moses (as) and other true prophets? If not, why?


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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2009 at 8:17am
Originally posted by Pati Pati wrote:


Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

I understand you fine word for word it's not your English believe me Ive heard it more broken you said "I don't feel I believe in Allah as my God "(What!)what you are saying is you dont believe in God,and you are learning Arabic.Oh! I forgot Prophet Isa (Alaihi Salam )is your god right..To answer your last question:If you obtain so-called knowlegde,REAL KNOWLEGDE of the deen of Al Islam (InshAllah)you would come to realize the Truth,plain and simple(InshAllah)and then if you choose to reject it thats all on you.I noticed you use the words I and my alot,It is Allah that gives you Knowledge and it is Allah that takes it away from you(WALLAHI!)Heres you answer to this question "why every muslim I know, think that if I study Islam I will turn into it sooner or later?" 17:107 - -

    قُلْ آمِنُواْ بِهِ أَوْ لاَ تُؤْمِنُواْ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْعِلْمَ مِن قَبْلِهِ إِذَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ يَخِرُّونَ لِلأَذْقَانِ سُجَّدًا (17:107)
    Baset - Hussari - Minshawi

Qul aminoo bihi aw la tuminoo inna allatheena ootoo alAAilma min qablihi itha yutla AAalayhim yakhirroona lilathqani sujjadan

Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Qur'an:belief in]

# 17:107 (Y. Ali) Say: "Whether ye believe in it or not, it is true that those who were given knowledge beforehand, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration, Search For: 17:111 - -

    وَقُلِ الْحَمْدُ لِلّهِ الَّذِي لَمْ يَتَّخِذْ وَلَدًا وَلَم يَكُن لَّهُ شَرِيكٌ فِي الْمُلْكِ وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ وَلِيٌّ مِّنَ الذُّلَّ وَكَبِّرْهُ تَكْبِيرًا (17:111)
    Baset - Hussari - Minshawi

Waquli alhamdu lillahi allathee lam yattakhith waladan walam yakun lahu shareekun fee almulki walam yakun lahu waliyyun mina alththulli wakabbirhu takbeeran

Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Allah:has no partner] [Allah:has no son] [Allah:magnify Him] [Allah:Praise be to Him]

# 17:111 (Y. Ali) Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"

You Say "If I was Muslim, I would have knowledge, but as far as I am Christian, I am ignorant... Ok, thanks a lot for sharing!!Actually if (I) were you,I'd rather be ignorant than be in a state of Kuf
I want one thing to be clear: for you, as Muslims, every newborn baby is Muslim, and it's just because of the bad things of this society why he/she turns into other religion.For me, as Christian, I was born a child, and my parents gave me the baptism hoping I was going to be Christian, but if I come to them telling that I feel another religion as my real religion, they would understand it, and they would NEVER REJECT ME. Why? Because for Christian, the knowledge comes not only from the Bible, from Jesus and from the priest and the Church, but from the rest of the people too. We accept to live inside a society, and we are part of it, respecting each other.Why is such an insult for you if I tell you I don't believe in Allah as my God? It's easy to understand: I AM NOT MUSLIM, and I don't have any feeling taking me to Islam, I'm sorry. Not because I feel it as a bad thing, sure (if I did, I would not be here, I would not try to learn anything about Islam, even Arabic, and I would not go to the Mosque every week to help people!!!). I already have my believes, and the only thing I realise, is that you cannot understand/respect it. Well, I cannot do anything for you, and I thing that going on with this conversation is just to waste time.You all are talking about the truth... well, for me, you are talking about YOUR TRUTH. The Islam is not the only way, and you have two options: to accept it and leave in peace, or to reject it and keep away from the rest of the world. God thanks, most of the Muslim I met are accepting it. It's your choice.
Salams,Pati remember how this conversation started,you saying:You have a deep knowlegde of Islam and Qur'an and then turn around and say ""I don't feel I believe in Allah as my God " wich indicates your lack of knowledge,lets try and stick to the script ok .I never said every newborn baby is a Muslim I said:,"We were all born in a state of Al Islam" (page one) there is a difference try and stay focused.You not being Muslim is not an insult to me but, you claiming knowledge about Islam that you really dont have is a concern of mine.But then again thats why youre here ayway to learn, right?Pati the first Surah AL Fatihah: what did you learn about it? you say: "Islam is not the only way" Al Fatihah verse 1:6&1:7 Ihdinaals sirata al mustaqeema,Sirata allatheena anamta Alayhim ghayril maghdoobi Alayhim wala dalleena.In this two ayat we are asking Allah (God)to show us the straight way The way of those on whom hast earn thy favor and not the way of those whom hast earned thy anger nor of those who go astray.(Ameen)So Islam may not be the only way but it is a way that is straight.

Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 08 September 2009 at 8:54am
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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2009 at 9:31am
Salams Pati, You have a little knowledge I'll give you that but, you dont believe in what you know(No Iman). that's wild aint it.May Allah(God) help you.La Illahi Ill Allah.
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