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Tax / Jizyah

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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2009 at 4:08pm
New Details of Prison Abuse Emerge
Abu Ghraib Detainees' Statements Describe Sexual Humiliation And Savage Beatings

By Scott Higham and Joe Stephens
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, May 21, 2004; Page A01

Previously secret sworn statements by detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq describe in raw detail abuse that goes well beyond what has been made public, adding allegations of prisoners being ridden like animals, sexually fondled by female soldiers and forced to retrieve their food from toilets.

  

The fresh allegations of prison abuse are contained in statements taken from 13 detainees shortly after a soldier reported the incidents to military investigators in mid-January. The detainees said they were savagely beaten and repeatedly humiliated sexually by American soldiers working on the night shift at Tier 1A in Abu Ghraib during the holy month of Ramadan, according to copies of the statements obtained by The Washington Post.

The statements provide the most detailed picture yet of what took place on the cellblock. Some of the detainees described being abused as punishment or discipline after they were caught fighting or with a prohibited item. Some said they were pressed to denounce Islam or were force-fed pork and liquor. Many provided graphic details of how they were sexually humiliated and assaulted, threatened with rape, and forced to masturbate in front of female soldiers.

"They forced us to walk like dogs on our hands and knees," said Hiadar Sabar Abed Miktub al-Aboodi, detainee No. 13077. "And we had to bark like a dog, and if we didn't do that they started hitting us hard on our face and chest with no mercy. After that, they took us to our cells, took the mattresses out and dropped water on the floor and they made us sleep on our stomachs on the floor with the bags on our head and they took pictures of everything."

The prisoners also provided accounts of how some of the now-famous photographs were staged, including the pyramid of hooded, naked prisoners. Eight of the detainees identified by name one particular soldier at the center of the abuse investigation, Spec. Charles A. Graner Jr., a member of the 372nd Military Police Company from Cresaptown, Md. Five others described abuse at the hands of a solider who matches Graner's description.

"They said we will make you wish to die and it will not happen," said Ameen Saeed Al-Sheik, detainee No. 151362. "They stripped me naked. One of them told me he would rape me. He drew a picture of a woman to my back and makes me stand in shameful position holding my buttocks."

The Pentagon is investigating the allegations, a spokesman said last night.

"There are a number of lines of inquiry that are being taken with respect to allegations of abuse of detainees in U.S. custody," Bryan Whitman said. "There is still more to know and to be learned and new things to be discovered."

Threats of Death and Assault

The disclosures come from a new cache of documents, photographs and videos obtained by The Post that are part of evidence assembled by Army investigators putting together criminal cases against soldiers at Abu Ghraib. So far, seven MPs have been charged with brutalizing detainees at the prison, and one pleaded guilty Wednesday.

The sworn statements, taken in Baghdad between Jan. 16 and Jan. 21, span 65 pages. Each statement begins with a handwritten account in Arabic that is signed by the detainee, followed by a typewritten translation by U.S. military contractors. The shortest statement is a single paragraph; the longest exceeds two single-spaced typewritten pages.

While military investigators interviewed the detainees separately, many of them recalled the same event or pattern of events and procedures in Tier 1A -- a block reserved for prisoners who were thought to possess intelligence that could help thwart the insurgency in Iraq, find Saddam Hussein or locate weapons of mass destruction. Military intelligence officers took over the cellblock last October and were using MPs to help "set the conditions" for interrogations, according to an investigative report complied by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba. Several MPs have since said in statements and through their attorneys that they were roughing up detainees at the direction of U.S. military intelligence officers.

Most of the detainees said in the statements that they were stripped upon their arrival to Tier 1A, forced to wear women's underwear, and repeatedly humiliated in front of one another and American soldiers. They also described beatings and threats of death and sexual assault if they did not cooperate with U.S. interrogators.

Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, detainee No. 151108, told investigators that when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib last year, he was forced to strip, put on a hood and wear rose-colored panties with flowers on them. "Most of the days I was wearing nothing else," he said in his statement.

Hilas also said he witnessed an Army translator having sex with a boy at the prison. He said the boy was between 15 and 18 years old. Someone hung sheets to block the view, but Hilas said he heard the boy's screams and climbed a door to get a better look. Hilas said he watched the assault and told investigators that it was documented by a female soldier taking pictures.

 


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 10 August 2009 at 4:09pm
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2009 at 4:20pm

The Abu Ghraib Prison Photos


New Abu Ghraib Abuse Photos

released February 15, 2006 by Australia's Special Broadcasting Service TV

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444
 
 
WARNING!  Some pictures are graphic!!!!
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2009 at 4:24pm

Kinda makes paying taxes not so humiliating.....

�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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Natassia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2009 at 8:22am
@ Shasta's Aunt
 
I already explained the meaning of my statement:
 
I think that kind of Law is too barbaric, too cruel, too harsh, too ruthless for my understanding. As a mother, I would try my best to protect my beloved children from any kind of harm even if it will affect me physically. Much more so is God AlMighty. He has the Power, The Will, The Means to bring up His Beloved Prophet to Him, saving him from humiliation in the hands of evil people.

Here lies the contradiction of the understanding of the Power of God. Leaving your beloved servant being cruelly tortured, mercilessly crucified in the hands of the Romans and the Jews does not depict a Powerful God to me. I would say, this kind of understanding of God is inferior.


That's okay. You can believe what you want. Christians aren't going to threaten you with execution or a jizyah tax.

This was not meant as a sidetrack.  The person said that God should have saved his prophet from a humiliating death.  If God really is Almighty, He would have been reaching down and taking matters into His own hands.

Christians really believe that God is Almighty.  Therefore, they do not feel it necessary to do God's work such as forcing conversion by threats of execution or a jizyah tax and second-class status.
***
 
Also, all of that copy-pasting you did to show persecution of Muslims?
 
An exercise in logical fallacy:
 
Ad hominem tu quoque
 
Red herring
 
(Please research those.)
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39-40)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2009 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

The jizyah tax was only for young non-Mulsim men who refused to serve in the military while living under Islamic rule. They were being protected by the military so if they refused to serve, and they had that right, they were taxed.
 
Unlike the military draft which has been used in the United States and other predominantly Christian countries for centuries, where the young men do not get a choice, they serve or go to prison. Or mandatory service which is used in Israel and other "Christian" countries, where upon your 18th birthday you are automatically expected to report for duty. Failure to do so results in prison or sometimes worse.
 
I don't understand why Christians always point to the jizyah as something so horrible. Which system is more fair? The option to opt out and pay a tax or forced military service or prison? Let's see, forced to kill or prison, forced to kill or prison.... hmmmmmmmm
I am pretty sure if the U.S. gave the option to pay a tax instead of forced military service during times of war millions of young people would happily do so.
 
As for threatening death, it wasn't Muslims torturing all those people during the Inquisitions, the witch hunts, etc... The Quran clearly states there is no compulsion in religion, you can't force someone to believe in God. They either do or they don't.
 
I provided Islamic sources (Tafsir Ibn Kathir and Tanw�r al-Miqb�s min Tafs�r Ibn �Abb�s) proving that the Jizya is meant to be a tax of humiliation upon a group of people purely for their differences in religious beliefs.
 
And I find it interesting that you use the phrase "predominately Christian country" when the United States has a strict policy of separation of Church and State.  Please review the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
 
The military draft in America has not been used since the Vietnam War.  The purpose of the draft is to protect American interests.  It is not to propogate any particular religion or wipe out any particular religion.
 
And a forced tax does not protect a nation.
 
Tafsir al-Jalalayn for Quran 9:29
Fight those who do not believe in God, nor in the Last Day, for, otherwise, they would have believed in the Prophet (s), and who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, such as wine, nor do they practise the religion of truth, the firm one, the one that abrogated other religions, namely, the religion of Islam � from among of those who (min, �from�, explains [the previous] alladhīna, �those who�) have been given the Scripture, namely, the Jews and the Christians, until they pay the jizya tribute, the annual tax imposed them, readily (�an yadin is a circumstantial qualifier, meaning, �compliantly�, or �by their own hands�, not delegating it [to others to pay]), being subdued, [being made] submissive and compliant to the authority of Islam.
 
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an for Quran 9:29
Fight with those from among the people of the Book, who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day;26 who do not make unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful,27 and do not adopt the Right way as their way. (Fight with them) until they pay Jizyah with their own hands and are humbled.28

26 Though the people of the Book professed to believe in Allah and the Hereafter, in fact they believed in neither. For only that person really believes in Allah who acknowledges Him as the only One God and the only One Lord, and does not associate with Him any other, whatsoever, in His Being, in His characteristics, in His rights and in His powers and authority. But according to this definition of shirk both the Christians and the Jews were guilty of shirk as has been made plain in the verses that follow: therefore their profession of belief in Allah was meaningless. Likewise they did not really believe in the Hereafter, in spite of the fact that they believed in Resurrection. For it is not enough: one must also believe that on that Day absolute justice will be done on the basis of one's belief and actions. One should also believe that no ransom and no expiation and no 'spiritual' relationships with any 'saint' shall be of any avail on that Day. It is absolutely meaningless to believe in the Hereafter without this. And the Jews and the Christians had polluted their faiths because they believed that such things would protect them against justice on that Day.

27 The second reason why Jihad should be waged against them is that they did not adopt the Law sent down by Allah through His Messenger. 

28 This is the aim of Jihad with the Jews and the Christians and it is not to force them to become Muslims and adopt the `Islamic Way of Life.' They should be forced to pay Jizyah in order to put an end to their independence and supremacy so that they should not remain rulers and sovereigns in the land. These powers should be wrested from them by the followers of the true Faith, who should assume the sovereignty and lead others towards the Right Way, while they should become their subjects and pay jizyah.  Jizyah is paid by those non-Muslims who live as Zimmis (proteges) in an Islamic State, in exchange for the security and protection granted to them by it. This is also symbolical of the fact that they themselves agree to live in it as its subjects. This is the significance of "..... they Pay jizyah with their own hands," that is, "with full consent so that they willingly become the subjects of the Believers, who perform the duty of the vicegerents of Allah on the earth. "

At first this Command applied only to the Jews and the Christians. Then the Holy Prophet himself extended it to the Zoroastrians also. After his death, his Companions unanimously applied this rule to all the non-Muslim nations outside Arabia.

This is jizyah " of which the Muslims have been feeling apologetic during the last two centuries of their degeneration and there are still some people who continue to apologize for it. But the Way of Allah is straight and clear and does not stand in need of any apology to the rebels against Allah. Instead of offering apologies on behalf of Islam for the measure that guarantees security of life, property and faith to those who choose to live under its protection, the Muslims should feel proud of such a humane law as that of jizyah. For it is obvious that the maximum freedom that can be allowed to those who do not adopt the Way of Allah but choose to tread the ways of error is that they should be tolerated to lead the life they like. That is why the Islamic State offers them protection, if they agree to live as its Zimmis by paying jizyah, but it cannot allow that they should remain supreme rulers in any place and establish wrong ways and impose them on others. As this state of things inevitably produces chaos and disorder, it is the duty of the true Muslims to exert their utmost to bring to an end their wicked rule and bring them under a righteous order.

As regards the question, "What do the non-Muslims get in return for Jizyah " it may suffice to say that it is the price of the freedom which the Islamic State allows them in following their erroneous ways, while living in the jurisdiction of Islam and enjoying its protection. The money thus collected is spent in maintaining the righteous administration that gives them the freedom and protects their rights. This also serves as a yearly reminder to them that they have been deprived of the honor of paying Zakat in the Way of Allah, and forced to pay jizyah instead as a price of following the ways of error. 

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39-40)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2009 at 1:06am
Also, all of that copy-pasting you did to show persecution of Muslims?
 
An exercise in logical fallacy:
 
Ad hominem tu quoque
 
Red herring
 
I understand what a red herring is. I've been watching you throw them out all over the Forum. You're very good at it, but I recognise a ringer when I read one.
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2009 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

I understand what a red herring is. I've been watching you throw them out all over the Forum. You're very good at it, but I recognise a ringer when I read one.
 
A ringer?
 
When have I been dishonest?
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39-40)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2009 at 3:29am
your whole being here is dishonest.. lol

you have lo interest in actually learning about Islam... just attack attack attack.

that red herring... fishy smell that it is...lol 

Edited by Hayfa - 19 August 2009 at 3:30am
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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