IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Any Answers from Christians?  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Any Answers from Christians?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 10>
Author
Message
Natassia View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 16 July 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2009 at 8:24pm

@ islamispeace

Sure, God wants us to abide in Him and walk in His ways. Humans are never capable of doing so, though. Try as we might, we always mess up. We are all transgressors. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US. And you know what the Quran says about transgressors.

I think of it like the laws of nature...this idea of atonement. When something evil is done, there must be atonement for it. Even the Orientals had the same idea with the yin-yang thing. The Egyptians had it with the scales of justice. I think even Islam has such a concept.

And yet no religion has provided the scales with which to weigh such debt. How is murder properly atoned for in the eyes of God? How is lying properly atoned for in the eyes of God? How about theft? Or what about the sins of the heart like lust and hate?

The plan for salvation was contingent upon humanity's sinfulness. But since God always knew humans would be sinful, then it doesn't sound like He was dependent on anything. Omniscience, remember?

If it weren't for humans sinning and then teaching the next generations to sin (and so forth), then salvation would not be necessary. The crucifixion is OUR FAULT!

Salvation is not guaranteed in Islam. You can hope and pray for it...fearing hell and begging for Jannah...Was Muhammad even sure? (Quran 46:9) And really, being a sinner as a Muslim doesn't matter. There are more than enough Christians and Jews to take your place. [Sahih Muslim, Book 37, Numbers 6665, 6666, & 6668]

That's what I never could understand about Islam. Can you sin or can't you? Are your good and bad deeds going to be weighed? How do you determine the individual weight of each deed so that you can keep track? If all you have to do is repent and make dua, then what is to keep you from sinning? If a Christian or Jew will take your place in hell, then what is to keep you from sinning? If Islam is the only guidance given by Allah, how do you know if you are doing things perfectly or not? Why must we follow Islam? Why won't Allah personally guide each one of us?

Back to Top
Natassia View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 16 July 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2009 at 8:32pm
@ Akhe Abdullah

Yes, omniscience does not necessarily mean predetermination. I agree.

However, the crucifixion was for our sake. If atonement for our individual sins were left up to us, then we'd all go to hell, and then eternal destruction. According to Christianity, the soul is not eternal. We are not guaranteed eternal life...even if it is torture in hell. Eternal life is a gift.

Basically, what Jesus did was to fulfill the Law perfectly and offer his life as ransom for ours. It was like he said, "Father, please take my life and spare theirs from eternal destruction. I will go to hell for their sakes." God accepted Jesus' offering.

When we sin, we dig our own spiritual grave. God offered a way out of it. We need only to believe in that way out. True faith is rewarded with the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is what guides each person to live a life free from slavery to sin.

Back to Top
Hayfa View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Female
Joined: 07 June 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2368
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2009 at 3:46am
Natassia, I think that in Islam and I think you would agree, NONE of us knows our fate.  You can 'believe' what you want, but the reality is the unknown.

Yes we don't know. And we can tally up our good deed and bad deed, and repent.   I have felt far more conscious of my actions and thoughts as a Muslim far more than I ever did as a Christian. Reason is that I was "saved." There was no accountability. As you said,  'just believe in that way out."

Why do most people not think about death.. we pretend it does not exist, its all made up pretty in the  casket.  I can accept that death is a natural part of life. But yeah, it is scary. and there are no guarantees.

So are you saying Jesus went to hell?

And you are right its not money, but I am asking you for a logical response. So Jesus knew he would be back in heaven so he volunteered to go down and 'die' and 'suffer'  but is it really then a sacrifice he is in HEAVEN!!!  He did not 'give his life' then.

And why do I need Jesus to have God forgive me? Then it would doom all those who have not heard of "Jesus" in this manner? Of course God can save all. God made us all. So why need another person.And its funny, I was taught to pray to "our Lord Jesus Crist". And I grew up thinking "God was human."

Where did you hear that Christians and Jews will replace Muslims in hell?? We are all determined by our own merit.

And no Mohammed (PBUH) was not sure. Because none of us are sure. We are taught to both love and fear God.

And do any of us stop sinning? Probably not. But so what? I think that some people are obsessed with the fact we do sin. It is the life of humans? If Jesus was meant to 'save us'  well sin is not over. Cause Jesus had no power. God as made this life a test. God can do what God wants. And we are supposed to attempt to do the best that we can do.

I think that keeping track of good deeds and bad deeds and repenting is about what we call God consciousness.. that are every action, our every thought is important. How I treat each moment. What is my intention with this post, how do I do it.

I don't in fact think we are meant to 'be free of sin."  Its about your relationship to yourself and your Creator.

I do not think that Christianity is that different in that a Christian should follow the actions of Jesus. What did Jesus do? He lived among the poor and oppressed. He was not rich, he lived a simple life. Was he a kind man, was he caring. There are many peace activist who are Christians. They protest against the wars, etc. Many help people who need help.

And Allah does guide each of us. What makes you think he does not?

And Islam is not the only guidance.. no, it is the most comprehensive and best known.

I tend not to get involved in these discussions much.. I tend to think they are more polarizing than anything. I think that people of faith would do better helping feed the homeless together or cleaning up trash than all the tit for tat stuff on this board..

Peace


In Islam we are taught to smile at people.  There are so many benefits for us and others. That is how detailed it is. It has the ability to address life and its many levels and facets.




Edited by Hayfa - 20 July 2009 at 3:51am
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
Back to Top
Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Male
Joined: 19 November 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1252
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2009 at 10:05am
Originally posted by Natassia Natassia wrote:

@ Akhe Abdullah


Yes, omniscience does not necessarily mean predetermination. I agree.


However, the crucifixion was for our sake. If atonement for our individual sins were left up to us, then we'd all go to hell, and then eternal destruction. According to Christianity, the soul is not eternal. We are not guaranteed eternal life...even if it is torture in hell. Eternal life is a gift.


Basically, what Jesus did was to fulfill the Law perfectly and offer his life as ransom for ours. It was like he said, "Father, please take my life and spare theirs from eternal destruction. I will go to hell for their sakes." God accepted Jesus' offering.


When we sin, we dig our own spiritual grave. God offered a way out of it. We need only to believe in that way out. True faith is rewarded with the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is what guides each person to live a life free from slavery to sin.

So what is your source of all this?Is this Jesus(As)sayings or someoneleses.Where did it come from?This is what the Qur'an says Jesus(As)says: Surah Al Ma'idah :117) Never said I to them Aught except what Thou Didst command me To say,to wit,'Worship Allah,my Lord and your Lord';And I was a witness Over them whilst I dwelt Amongst them; when Thou Didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher Over them, and Thou Art a witness to all things.
Back to Top
islamispeace View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islamispeace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2009 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by martha martha wrote:

Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

Originally posted by martha martha wrote:

Wa-laikum as-salaam brother,
 
The war in heaven...
You could say Lucifer, (Satan) thought he had a chance to succeed. I always tried to look at it before that he was no different to any disobedient child,lol. And if you look at any dictator throughout history then they certainly felt/feel they have a good chance of success by bullying and evil deeds. And we know what ultimately befalls them. Disobedience to any of Allahs laws always results in their downfall...just like Lucifer(satan, shaytan)


Thanks.  This helps to clarify the Mormon viewpoint. 
 
 
 
 That's good then. Mormons are Christians but not everyone understands that
 



I guess they are as much Christian as Bahai's are Muslim.  The Mormon religion is different in many ways than it is similar, as you have actually shown.  I don't mainstream Christians would agree with the Mormon views on salvation, and the questions I presented were posed to those Christians, in all honesty.  Of course, I don't agree with the Mormon stance.  It does have its own theological problems, but you have clarified certain aspects.  Now if only the mainstream Christians here would answer my questions, I would be set! LOL

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

Back to Top
Natassia View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 16 July 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2009 at 4:38pm
@ Hayfa

If you truly had faith in Allah, you would not fear death, and the afterlife would not be "unknown" to you.

And no accountability? Never heard the phrase "you reap what you sow"? If you choose to be promiscuous, and you get venereal disease, it looks to me like you were held accountable for your actions. When you trust in the salvation of God and rely on guidance from the Holy Spirit and TRULY BELIEVE in the sacrifice made by Christ, the desire to sin leaves you. You are no longer a slave to selfish desires and sin.  How can you be? Imagine if you knew someone died in a terrible manner to give you eternal salvation? At that point, how could you ever think to disobey his commands? It's about love. If you love your king, you will WANT TO obey him.

So are you saying Jesus went to hell? Yes. (But the hell of Islam is not the Judeo-Christian hell. Jesus went to Sheol/Hades...not Gehenna.)

And you are right its not money, but I am asking you for a logical response. So Jesus knew he would be back in heaven so he volunteered to go down and 'die' and 'suffer' but is it really then a sacrifice he is in HEAVEN!!! He did not 'give his life' then.

Jesus knew what his heavenly reward would be for his sacrifice...but that doesn't make it any less painful or devastating. If you die a martyr, you know you will go to heaven...and yet does that make you want to be a martyr? Come on. Life is precious. Even Christ appreciated that.

And why do I need Jesus to have God forgive me? Then it would doom all those who have not heard of "Jesus" in this manner? Of course God can save all. God made us all. So why need another person.And its funny, I was taught to pray to "our Lord Jesus Crist". And I grew up thinking "God was human."

We pray to God the Father in the name of the Son. God is not human. I'm wondering, why do you need Islam to have Allah forgive you? God is complete justice and mercy. He is also omniscient. What makes you think the gospel can't be preached in hell? (See 1 Peter 3:18-22.)

Where did you hear that Christians and Jews will replace Muslims in hell?? We are all determined by our own merit.

I read it here: Sahih Muslim, Book 37, Numbers 6665, 6666, and 6668. Islam has a big contradiction when it comes to the burden of sins and who will bear them. It also has a big contradiction in regards to the salvation of the people of the Book. http://www.scribd.com/doc/17357032/Is-Islam-the-Religion-of-Contradictions

And no Mohammed (PBUH) was not sure. Because none of us are sure. We are taught to both love and fear God.

If you have 100% faith and trust that someone loves you and cares for you, then you should have 100% faith that they will take care of you and save your soul.

And do any of us stop sinning? Probably not. But so what? I think that some people are obsessed with the fact we do sin. It is the life of humans? If Jesus was meant to 'save us' well sin is not over. Cause Jesus had no power. God as made this life a test. God can do what God wants. And we are supposed to attempt to do the best that we can do.
 
Muslims believe Muhammad came to bring "the way" (aka Islam) and Christians believe Jesus came to BE "the way." If sin is not a big deal, then what do we need salvation for at all? Why would Allah create hell in the first place? What's the point of worrying about transgressors? Why not destroy people permanently rather than allow them to be tortured for all eternity?
 
I think that keeping track of good deeds and bad deeds and repenting is about what we call God consciousness.. that are every action, our every thought is important. How I treat each moment. What is my intention with this post, how do I do it.

Yeah, do you write it all down to make sure that your good deeds column is longer than your bad deeds column? Is telling a lie worth two good deeds? And if you live your life constantly questioning your intentions, it sounds to me like you are just as obsessed with sin as Christians are...if not more.

I don't in fact think we are meant to 'be free of sin." Its about your relationship to yourself and your Creator.

You cannot be a slave to two masters. You are either a slave to your own selfish desires or you are a slave to the will of God. You can't straddle the fence when it comes to the mastership of your spirit.

I do not think that Christianity is that different in that a Christian should follow the actions of Jesus. What did Jesus do? He lived among the poor and oppressed. He was not rich, he lived a simple life. Was he a kind man, was he caring. There are many peace activist who are Christians. They protest against the wars, etc. Many help people who need help.

Christians are not saved by what they do. "Being a Christian" does not guarantee salvation.
 
And Allah does guide each of us. What makes you think he does not?
 
You're kidding me, right? The minute someone falters off the path of Islam, Allah will no longer guide them. In fact, Allah will likely misguide them. (Quran 2:26, 6:125, 14:4, 14:27)

And Islam is not the only guidance.. no, it is the most comprehensive and best known.

You're bordering upon heresy here. Either Islam is the only way or it is not. The minute it is not, then you make Muhammad and the Quran unnecessary, and therefore one can be a Christian, Jew, Zoroastrian, etc. and go to heaven.

I tend not to get involved in these discussions much.. I tend to think they are more polarizing than anything. I think that people of faith would do better helping feed the homeless together or cleaning up trash than all the tit for tat stuff on this board..

Education and knowledge are key to preventing the ignorance that leads to things like homelessness and littering. One should never feel guilty for discussing things and learning.

In Islam we are taught to smile at people. There are so many benefits for us and others. That is how detailed it is. It has the ability to address life and its many levels and facets.

With Christ, we don't need to be "taught." But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-25 NIV)
Back to Top
islamispeace View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islamispeace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2009 at 4:41pm

Natassia: Sure, God wants us to abide in Him and walk in His ways. Humans are never capable of doing so, though. Try as we might, we always mess up. We are all transgressors. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US. And you know what the Quran says about transgressors.

The Quran says that all humans are born with a clean slate, unlike the Christian Bible.  My point was that in order for the plan of salvation to work, it required people to commit sin, something that the plan was trying to get rid of.  If this is not irony, I don't know what is.

Natassia: I think of it like the laws of nature...this idea of atonement. When something evil is done, there must be atonement for it. Even the Orientals had the same idea with the yin-yang thing. The Egyptians had it with the scales of justice. I think even Islam has such a concept.

I agree, but that does not answer why God's plan required someone to commit evil. 

Natassia: And yet no religion has provided the scales with which to weigh such debt. How is murder properly atoned for in the eyes of God? How is lying properly atoned for in the eyes of God? How about theft? Or what about the sins of the heart like lust and hate?

Islam has.  Atonement occurs in many ways.  Obviously, punishment according to the law is one way.  Other ways, as the Quran says, include asking for forgiveness, feeding the poor, freeing slaves, fasting, praying, giving charity etc. 

Natassia: The plan for salvation was contingent upon humanity's sinfulness. But since God always knew humans would be sinful, then it doesn't sound like He was dependent on anything. Omniscience, remember?

That's fine.  Of course the plan was contingent upon humanity sinfulness.  If they weren't sinful, they would not require salvation.  But there is a difference between salvation being contingent upon sinfulness and sinfulness being contingent upon salvation.  That is a big difference.  The Christian plan of salvation required sinfulness on the part of some people, which is why I also questioned Jesus could not have died in some other way, as long as death was the end result.  That is what I am concerned with. 

Natassia: If it weren't for humans sinning and then teaching the next generations to sin (and so forth), then salvation would not be necessary. The crucifixion is OUR FAULT!

Actually, according to your fellow Christian Douggg, we were born with a sinful nature.  So, how is that our fault?  It seems to me that it was really Adam and Eve's fault, since they were the ones who actually caused sin to permeate humanity in the first place. 

Natassia: Salvation is not guaranteed in Islam.

Says who?  The Quran says very clearly that if you believe in Allah and acknowledge that Muhammad (pbuh) is His messenger, then you will be saved:

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.(4:59)

The only difference is that a Muslim is also told to do good deeds and avoid bad deeds.  When a Muslim dies, his deeds are weighed against each other and if the bad deeds are more numerous, then the Muslim is sent to Hell...but not for eternity!  This is made clear by the saying of the blessed prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as mentioned in Sahih Bukhari:

"Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "When the people of Paradise will enter Paradise and the people of Hell will go to Hell, Allah will order those who have had faith equal to the weight of a grain of mustard seed to be taken out from Hell. So they will be taken out but (by then) they will be blackened (charred). Then they will be put in the river of Haya' (rain) or Hayat (life) (the Narrator is in doubt as to which is the right term), and they will revive like a grain that grows near the bank of a flood channel. Don't you see that it comes out yellow and twisted""

So, yes a Muslim is saved in the end.  The only difference between our view and yours is that if you were to ask a Muslim the question "are you saved", the response would be "InshaAllah" or "God willing", whereas the Christian response to such a question would be "Yes, definitely!"  That is because salvation in Islam is ultimately based on God's mercy, not on our own whims.  We will not say "Yes, definitely" because that would be assuming the role of God, who is the one who ultimately decides who is saved and who is not. That is not the same as being "unsure" of salvation. 

Natassia: You can hope and pray for it...fearing hell and begging for Jannah...Was Muhammad even sure? (Quran 46:9)

Yes, he was.  But, because he was humble and truly gracious to his Lord, he prayed, asked for forgiveness and shed tears profusely.  This is indicated by the testimony of Hazrat Aisha (ra):

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet used to offer prayer at night (for such a long time) that his feet used to crack. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Why do you do it since Allah has forgiven you your faults of the past and those to follow?" He said, "Shouldn't I love to be a thankful slave (of Allah)?' When he became old, he prayed while sitting, but if he wanted to perform a bowing, he wound get up, recite (some other verses) and then perform the bowing.

In addition, when he knew his death was near, he indicated that the Lord would welcome him with open arms:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

The Prophet delivered a sermon and said, "Allah gave a choice to one of (His) slaves either to choose this world or what is with Him in the Hereafter. He chose the latter." Abu Bakr wept. I said to myself, "Why is this Sheikh weeping, if Allah gave choice to one (of His) slaves either to choose this world or what is with Him in the Here after and he chose the latter?" And that slave was Allah's Apostle himself. Abu Bakr knew more than us. The Prophet said, "O Abu Bakr! Don't weep. The Prophet added: Abu- Bakr has favored me much with his property and company. If I were to take a Khalil from mankind I would certainly have taken Abu Bakr but the Islamic brotherhood and friendship is sufficient. Close all the gates in the mosque except that of Abu Bakr.

Natassia: That's what I never could understand about Islam. Can you sin or can't you? Are your good and bad deeds going to be weighed? How do you determine the individual weight of each deed so that you can keep track? If all you have to do is repent and make dua, then what is to keep you from sinning?

I have answered these questions.

Natassia: If a Christian or Jew will take your place in hell, then what is to keep you from sinning?

The fear of Allah and faith in His message.  The throwing of the unbelievers into Hell will be an act of mercy upon the believers who had a heavy debt of sinful behavior (#6668).  That does not mean that a Muslim can go on sinning, because Allah says not to sin.  So, if we do it, would would be disobeying Allah and that is never good.  Also, notice that in #6669, the sinner Muslim is asked by Allah if he acknowledges his sins.  When the Muslims admits his sins, instead of trying to make excuses, Allah will reward his humbleness by forgiving his sins:

Safwan b. Muhriz reported that a person said to Ibn 'Umar: How did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying something about intimate conversation? He said: I heard him say: A believer will be brought to his Lord, the Exalted and Glorious, on the Day of Resurrection and He would place upon him His veil (of Light) and make him confess his faults and say: Do you recognise (your faults)? He would say: My Lord, I do recognise (them). He (the Lord) would say: I concealed them for you in the world. And today I forgive them. And he would then be given the Book containing (the account of his) good deeds. And so far as the non-believers and hypocrites are concerned, there would be general announcement about them before all creation telling them that these (people, i. e. non-believers and hypocrites) told a lie about Allah.

Natassia: If Islam is the only guidance given by Allah, how do you know if you are doing things perfectly or not? Why must we follow Islam? Why won't Allah personally guide each one of us?

You follow to the best of your ability the Quran and Sunnah.  And, yes Allah does guide us as He wills.  But, that is based upon our own actions.  He only guides those who are faithful and truly yearn to do good and follow Him. 



Edited by islamispeace - 20 July 2009 at 4:49pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

Back to Top
Natassia View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 16 July 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2009 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

So what is your source of all this?Is this Jesus(As)sayings or someoneleses.Where did it come from?This is what the Qur'an says Jesus(As)says: Surah Al Ma'idah :117) Never said I to them Aught except what Thou Didst command me To say,to wit,'Worship Allah,my Lord and your Lord';And I was a witness Over them whilst I dwelt Amongst them; when Thou Didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher Over them, and Thou Art a witness to all things.
 
Out of a desire to avoid being banned from this site, I will not tell you my opinion of that verse.  I will also not tell you why I think such a verse was "revealed" in the first place.
 
Yes, omniscience does not necessarily mean predetermination. I agree. SOURCE: My brain.
 
However, the crucifixion was for our sake. SOURCE: John 3:14-18, Matthew 20:28, Mark 10:45
 
If atonement for our individual sins were left up to us, then we'd all go to hell, and then eternal destruction. SOURCE: Isaiah 64:6, Psalm 14:1-3, Psalm 53:1-3, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Revelation 21:8
 
According to Christianity, the soul is not eternal. We are not guaranteed eternal life...even if it is torture in hell. Eternal life is a gift. SOURCE: Romans 6:23, Revelation 20:14

Basically, what Jesus did was to fulfill the Law perfectly and offer his life as ransom for ours. It was like he said, "Father, please take my life and spare theirs from eternal destruction. I will go to hell for their sakes." God accepted Jesus' offering. SOURCE: Matthew 5:17, Matthew 20:28, Mark 10:45, Daniel 7:13-14, Matthew 26:63-64, Matthew 28:16-20, Revelation 5

When we sin, we dig our own spiritual grave. SOURCE: Romans 6:23
 
God offered a way out of it. We need only to believe in that way out. SOURCE: John 3:14-16
 
True faith is rewarded with the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is what guides each person to live a life free from slavery to sin. SOURCE: John 14:15-27, John 16:5-15, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2, 1 Corinthians 6:19, Galatians 5:21-25
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 10>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.