Muslims, conspiracy theories and blame cu |
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Rezz
Groupie Joined: 13 July 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Posted: 14 July 2005 at 2:29am |
I
was born a Muslim. Having lived in Britain most of my life I recently made an
effort to learn about Islam, to try to make sense of the terrible things
happening in the world today. And the anger and hatred burned and grew inside them as it does with so many
Muslims. Why are we at the bottom of society? Why are we poor? Why are so many
of our young men in prison? Why is everyone else more successful than we? Who
can we blame?
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MOCKBA
Moderator Group Joined: 27 September 2000 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 1410 |
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Bismillah You were born a Muslim but you failed to understand Islam (common phenomenon these days). You have been trying to comprehed Islam by looking at "Islamic" countries that are non-existent in today's world. Your comments therefore are not surprising. All you see today are the vestiges of greatness of once Islamic countries... some turned ugly with time, standing shabby-genteel in langour, trying hard to remind us... trying hard to make us, Muslims, reflect and ponder. These however are not vestiges of imperturbable principles of Islam. Principles of peace Divine, principles of existence and purpose, principles of infinity versus temporariness. It seems more from your thoughts that "having lived most of your life in Britain" and working hard to become "British" yourself, you have failed to conceal your true origin... for which you now blame the uneducated, unemployed, poor mass that chose to seek worldly refuge in your 'new neighbourhood'. A true Muslim, regardless of his origin, status, color and location NEVER considers him/ herself the "bottom of society". Islamic world is first and foremost in his heart. It is this unity of hearts, even if few, that we carry around and that can't be destroyed. A true Muslim has the word of God reminding him of those who are best and those who have failed. If only you tried to read it carefully and not critically you would not be feeling so frustrated. A person who reverted to Islam once said: "If i were to discover those who call themselves Muslims before i discovered Islam, i would have never become Muslim." And may Allah open your heart, too. Edited by MOCKBA |
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MOCKBA
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Rezz
Groupie Joined: 13 July 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Your
reply is eloquent and thoughtful. But one I have heard before. "If only
everyone was a good Muslim then Islam would work!" Read it again. I am
sure you are a thoroughly nice, decent, peace-loving person like the vast
majority of Muslims. However, I believe you struggle with a flawed
ideology. Now
consider your own words from another post. "Killing of innocents is not in
line with Islam". How
many times do we hear this? So what is an "Innocent?". Who except for
Allah can judge who is Innocent? The inclusion of the word "Innocent"
in the Koran is an example of why Islam is flawed. The Torah and the Bible have
the absolute "You shall not kill". No exceptions! Yes,
there are bad Jews and bad Christians just as much as there are bad
Muslims.
But philosophically it is so much more difficult for Jews and
Christians to
justify killing in the name of their God. I AM NOT SAYING THEY DON'T DO
IT! Just that it is clearly against their ideology. However, in Islam
it seems that as long as the
people killed were "Guilty" of something or a "Threat" to
Muslims then the killer might even go to heaven! Am I wrong? I hope
you understand my arguments in the spirit they are meant. I do not wish to
offend Muslims. I simply wish demonstrate that flawed ideologies, whether
political or religious will create dysfunctional societies. Look at Communism.
And the people in power will go to vicious lengths to stifle debate or criticism. (Look at Iran).
Mockba, you are clearly an educated and intelligent person. Forget the conspiracy
theories. Stop blaming the whole world. The answer is closer to home.
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MOCKBA
Moderator Group Joined: 27 September 2000 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 1410 |
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Bismillah Thank you for your sincere and open thoughts Jezz. Muslims are indeed fighting a flawed ideology that has brought about corruption, oppression and utter ignorance of God's Commands. That ideology however is not Islam. Islam is not an ideology, it is not a religion, but it is the way of life. If you were to ask me to state what particular ideology of today they are fighting I may not be able to point my fingers either. Islam fights racial superiority, injustice, disobedience to Allah, ignorance, temptation, and many more� Yes, Islam allows killing (not murder)... and at some instance (primarily concerning times of war) it encourages it. This should not however be taken in general sense, for Allah, Most High, also says, �Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.� (Quran 4:93) In order not to offend a Jewish or a Christian in the forum, and taking into account my lack of knowledge and interest of exact content of their scriptures, I would not go into details of Torah/ Bible's absolutism concerning prohibition of killing, I don't know. There is something, however, that may not mean command to kill, but is clearly devoid of absolute stand on the subject matter. As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you (Deuteronomy 20:10-14) Your arguments are understood. They are not attacking, they are not defending, they seem to be seeking knowledge and understanding, and Allah knows best. Yes, flawed ideologies will create disfunctional societies... but ignorance of God and His Commands will bring about disfunctional world. |
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MOCKBA
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lionslayer
Starter Joined: 14 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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hello
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ZamanH
Guest Group Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Outside the West and Japan prosperity and democracy is only an exception (prosperity, is non-existent I think). It is wrong to say that Muslims are suffering because of their own faults. In fact the entire world is suffering becasue of the Western mischief. Westerners directly robbed Indians for 250 years and have the face to say that they (Indians) are poor because of their own mistakes. Our mistake was only that we trusted the cowardly Western traders (god damned scoundrels). |
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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet |
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Rezz
Groupie Joined: 13 July 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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ZammanH
It is because of statements like yours, typical sadly of the majority of Muslims I has encountered, that I chose to post my opinion titled "Muslims, conspiracy theories and the blame culture" Look at yourselves for the answers to the disfunctionality of your countries and communities. Stop blaming others. |
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ZamanH
Guest Group Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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I never said we are perfect. But we can't be poor just because we are not perfect. Westerners have killed lot more people in the last 100 years than all the people in the rest of the world, combined have killed. Yet, they are richer than the Muslims because they rob others.
Edited by ZamanH |
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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet |
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