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19ers?

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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 May 2009 at 10:01am

In several recent discussions we have been talking about various proofs that God exists or that the Quran or other scriptures are authentic.  I am surprised that no one so far has mentioned the so-called "Miracle of 19" that is supposedly encoded into the text of the Quran.  I have heard promoters of the alleged miracle called "19ers".  I don't know how prevalent that term is, but it is an apt name for them.

I know very little about the claim, and not speaking Arabic I am not really able to evaluate it.  If true, it would seem to me very strong evidence of the existence of God and the authenticity of the Quran.  I'm sure that most Muslims here know about it though, and the fact that it hasn't come up in our conversations suggests to me that most people reject it.
 
For those who don't know what I'm talking about, have a look at one of these two Web sites:
 
What is the opinion of most Muslims about this?  Has anyone actually sat down with an Arabic copy of the Quran and tried to verify the many mathematical claims being made?
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Tony View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2009 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

In several recent discussions we have been talking about various proofs that God exists or that the Quran or other scriptures are authentic.  I am surprised that no one so far has mentioned the so-called "Miracle of 19" that is supposedly encoded into the text of the Quran.  I have heard promoters of the alleged miracle called "19ers".  I don't know how prevalent that term is, but it is an apt name for them.

I know very little about the claim, and not speaking Arabic I am not really able to evaluate it.  If true, it would seem to me very strong evidence of the existence of God and the authenticity of the Quran.  I'm sure that most Muslims here know about it though, and the fact that it hasn't come up in our conversations suggests to me that most people reject it.
 
For those who don't know what I'm talking about, have a look at one of these two Web sites:
 
What is the opinion of most Muslims about this?  Has anyone actually sat down with an Arabic copy of the Quran and tried to verify the many mathematical claims being made?
 
Hi,
 
I want to thank you very much for posting this topic.
I am new on this forum and your post led me write this comment. I have been interested in Islam for quite some time and I visited your links. If this is true, then I don't see what would prevent anyone who is sincere to become a Muslim. The first website provides a link to calculate "gematrical values" (http://www.islamrevolution.org/361mainarticle.htm, right before part 4.3.4) so apparently one does not need to be an Arabic speaker to verify some of the claims.
I believe we have to be very cautious and no one should take the information you provided for granted without verifying. If it happens to be true, then it would be absolutely incredible, to say the least.
It seems to me that the websites reject a traditional approach of Islam based on hadiths and follow Quran alone. I believe this would be a better
definition of who those people are.
 
Thanks again for sharing the info.
 
 
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seekshidayath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2009 at 6:19am
Hello Ronn,
 
Yes, you shall find none discussing this. We are not the followers of this person, who is declared as kafir. He believes in understanding Qur'an only by its verses, whereas we understand Quran by the saying of Prophet as well. Anyways we reject his mathematical codes.
 
These two sites you referred are also not referred by we muslims. Moreover, Quran is a divine scripture for the guidance of humanity. What can numbers help us as guidance ? He tried to get a mathematical code from Quran. We don't believe in any such numbers.
 
He is also said to have proclaimed himself as Prophet.
 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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islamispeace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islamispeace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2009 at 3:17pm
I agree with seekshidayath.  It is much more worthwhile to read the Quran the way it was meant to be.  It is a book of guidance.  Whether a mathematical code exists within it or not is not relevant.  
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2009 at 4:15pm
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Tony View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2009 at 10:02am
Originally posted by abuayisha abuayisha wrote:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Suspect+1990+Arizona+mosque+murder+arrested+Calgary/1547134/story.html
 
Thanks for the link. It is very interesting that the alleged murderer of Rashad Khalifa (who discovered the miracle of 19) got arrested 19 years after the assassination.
 
I have done a little research on the website mentioned by Ron Webb(http://www.islamrevolution.org/rashadsdeathandsura19.htm): Rashad Khalifa was stabbed 29 times; he unveiled the miracle of 19 explaining the function of the Quranic initials in the 29 suras that begin with quranic initials. The first verse of sura 19, in the 29 quranic initials system, is the 1230th verse (also gematrical "mathematical value" of Rashad Khalifa), and the last verse of sura 19 is the 1327th verse in the same system.
He was assassinated on the 31st of January 1990 (31/01/1990):
31/01/1990 = 31011990 = 19 x 1230 x 1327.
 
Is this a major sign from above to point at the one who discovered the miracle of 19, or is it a pure coincidence?
Any comments on the above?
 
 
 
 
 
 
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myahya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myahya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2009 at 10:01pm
I should say that the table regarding the numbers are Abjad numbers and are right. I have personally not checked all mathematical relationships that are claimed. They can be easily checked and if they are right it is of course amazing. However, such mathematical relationship can neither be used to exclude a single verse of Quran nor to disprove Hadith in general. Ridiculous and shameful ahadith in Islamic reference books are apparently corrupted and fabricated. However, the true ahadith can be found with historical research and the benchmark provided by Quran.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haris30432 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2010 at 2:41am
Peace,
 
i know the reply is too late.Im actually a new member of this forum.i have verfied the miracle in the Quran Mashallah.Its truely amazing and proves the existance of GOD and that the Quran is truely the word of GOD.The ones who reject this amazing proof from GOD will certainly have no explanations to the Quranic initials.They say there is no need to understand the numbers in the Quran.So what are the Quranic initials there for?Do they have any clear explanation for it?.It is interesting that the Quran actually refers to the number 19 in Surah 74.The discovery of this miracle was in the year 1974.These informations are easily verfiable.The discoverer of this miracle did not claim to be a prophet as mentioned in the above post.He simply claimed to be a messenger of GOD.We all know that the last Prophet was Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh).
 
Peace!
ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!
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