Halaal meat, is it really

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   Ok, Sis Jenni, I definitely need to know your line of reasoning when you say "And it is not and issue of hygine only if an animal is fed animal by products and growth hormones it is not halal no matter how you slaughter it, I stand by that claim!!" Seems to be an interesting claim. Can you provide some references along with some elaborations of your claim? Thanks. 

Edited by AhmadJoyia

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AhmadJoyia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647	Post Options Post Reply Quote AhmadJoyia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2005 at 12:21pm
	Ok, Sis Jenni, I definitely need to know your line of reasoning when you say "And it is not and issue of hygine only if an animal is fed animal by products and growth hormones it is not halal no matter how you slaughter it, I stand by that claim!!" Seems to be an interesting claim. Can you provide some references along with some elaborations of your claim? Thanks. Edited by AhmadJoyia

Jenni Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jenni Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2005 at 8:24am
	AhmadJoyia-The meat comes from smaller farms that feed the animals naturally, allow them to live in cleaner conditions and are not given hormones and routine antibiotics. The farms are open to the public and are monitered by various organizations like the humane society and others. The meat is not available in superstores but smaller health food stores and is significantly more expensive. The quality is far and away much better. A step higher is usda organic meat which is monitered by the government and even the feed of the animals has to be organic, the grass and grain. If halal stores started carrying this meat I would buy it, but so far most of them don't. And what they have as far as beef and chicken are concerned is really the cheapest lowest quality meat available. How else could they sell it for so cheap and make a prophet. And it is not and issue of hygine only if an animal is fed animal by products and growth hormones it is not halal no matter how you slaughter it, I stand by that claim!!
	You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.

AhmadJoyia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647	Post Options Post Reply Quote AhmadJoyia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2005 at 7:22am
	Sis Jenni, As I said before, there are two aspects of food being discussed here. One is from hygenic point of view and the other is religious point of view. The latter is superset of former point of view. That is to say that Islam calls for both halal and hygenic food to be the first choice. However, there are numerous situations where only one of the conditions can be met and yet a situation where none can be met. Islam, as stated in verse 2:173, provides complete flexability, depending upon the intentions of the individual, to choose whatever is within ones reach. Isalam has been made easy for us and all difficulties of the past have been removed from this ummah. Having said this, personally speaking, I don't think, professor Sakr has any scholarly attributes to make things haram or halal, per say. Though he is an expert in food sciences as mentioned on the sound vision website "according to Ahmad Sakr, professor emeritus of Food Science", his suggestions or opinons may not be considered as authentic from the religious point of view, though I am not arguing over his views. The hygine of a slaughtered animal is obviously a foremost requirement and hence exists prior to the issue of halal or haram. Hence once this is settled, only then the issue of Dhabia or Halal comes in. I don't know how any superstore can ensure more hygenic meat than any local halal meat shop since their source of meat is same. Isn't it. Yes, if one can afford it, one may go to any lengths to ensure the kind of hygenic conditions they like to make for their consumption of meat, but then its more of scientific debate than a religious one. Though I don't know from where this free range meat can be procured in USA, but how do someone ensure that free range animals are free from harmones etc since, I don't think, they come under any regulations for not doing so.

Jenni Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jenni Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 July 2005 at 4:56pm
	Thanks for your support ummziba and rose!!! And I think as far as halal is concerned in the U.s.a. and canada lamb and goat are better quality than beef and chicken. If I buy lamb or goat I definitly buy from the halal store. The feeding standards in the west in general for lamb and goat is much higher than beef and chicken. Also they are generally not injected with hormones. I think for beef and chicken if you can not be gauranteed that the halal meat is hormone free and not fed animal by products than free range or organic chicken or beef is a better choice. The feed for chickens and cattle is the worst!!! Also for anyone with kids I highly reccomend organic milk. At least milk that is rsbt(hormone free). Allah Pak only knows what the long term effect of this chemical will be on our kids!!
	You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.

Rose Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 07 July 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 167	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rose Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 July 2005 at 1:09pm
	*Bismillih Alrahman Alraheem* "He only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful." [2:173] It is a very long subject, but I know that as long as a person believes in a God what ever the religion, you are allowed to eat from the meat. And only Allah nows best
	A thorn defends the rose,harming only those who would steal the blossom

ummziba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 16 March 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1158	Post Options Post Reply Quote ummziba Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 July 2005 at 10:56am
	Assalamu alaikum, Certainly we strive to do as Allah asks us to. If good quality halal meat is available, we have no excuse to eat otherwise. If the halal meat available to us is tainted (hormones, blood, and so on), then are we not obliged to do the better of the two and eat good healthy meat - as long as we say bismallah over it before eating? This would apply to persons who live where halal meat is not even available at all as well. It is a good point, Sister Jenni, that we need to feed our children good quality meat. In fact, we are not supposed to harm ourselves or others, so eating halal meat that is tainted would be wrong. And yes, I have seen many "fatwas" and articles about halal meat for Muslim minorities living in the west - they all say it is all right to eat the meat from our grocery store (if halal is not available where we live) as long as we say bismillah over it before eating. I went for almost three years eating no meat at all when I first became a Muslim. Then, I finally met the little community of Muslims here - they all ate meat from the grocery store (saying bismallah before eating). All had consulted imams "back home" who suggested this is what they should do. Islam is supposed to be a simple religion that causes no hardships to the Muslims - Muslims seem to be the ones who make it confusing! May Allah give us all reasonable minds like Sister Jenni! Peace, ummziba.
	Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~

Jenni Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jenni Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 July 2005 at 10:14am
	My point to you AhmadJoyia is that the soundvision website states that most zabiha meat is not really halal. Becuase of the presence of animal blood and tissue being fed to the animal. Also because of the hormones. Unless it is free range, no hormones and not fed animal by products zabiha really means nothing!! So the point is I would rather eat meat that is not Zabiha that is organic which tastes much better and is of higher quality than eat some of the pathetic cheap halal meat that I have had to throw away because it was so awful. I have even found the Q&A on Islamicity that the Imam said it is O.k. to eat non Zabiha meat, it is not preferred but it is not Haram. Once again people are just stuck on how the animal was slaughtered, if it was fed pig parts then I don't think it can ever be halal!!
	You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.

Khadija1021 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 30 June 2005 Status: Offline Points: 530	Post Options Post Reply Quote Khadija1021 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 July 2005 at 10:05am
	Assalamu Alaikum This is a good topic. I'm a new muslim and I have read in the Qur'an and the Hadith about eating meat that is Halal. My question is, what if you don't have a Halal butcher in your community or anywhere close to you? PAZ, Khadija
	Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)