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hat2010 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 April 2009 at 7:43am
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Edited by Jamal Morelli - 30 October 2009 at 8:46am
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Gulliver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gulliver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2009 at 10:07am
 
One law for the Muslims here, and one for everyone else.  Sharia Law in full swing, even on a forum :-)  Same old same old. Double standards and hypocrisy.
 
You are no 'peacemaker'.
 
 
Very selective in your deletions.
 
IF your 'friend' wants some education on this matter Jamal, I would be glad to help him/her if I can.  But will do it privately.  They can email me.  
 
I've seen as much as I need to see, and know here now. But will correspond via email if  it's helpful. And it will not be to defend Christianity/Islam or any other religion.
 
I have only ever tried to speak about the abuses in all religions, and how serious they are - having known them personally. Spending many long hours trying to understand that it had nothing to do with the 'true' religion or the 'message' that some people - priests/imams or anyone else, choose to abuse - in seeking the abuse/rape of children, or anyone else.
 
 
Some people here could see that and corresponded with me on those particular issues. But bigots have myopic vision. Not your fault. Maybe it religious 'abuse' :-)
 
 
Your job here, at least I thought was part of being Muslim, is to draw people to the greater desire for understanding your religon - not putting them off it completely.  And you my friend have played, and are playing with fire, a fire that will come back and really 'bite' your ass.
 
 
Good luck to you.
 
 Gulliver, I edited your post politely. And then you edited and continued your violation. Please refrain from editing mod-edited posts. 
 
 


Edited by peacemaker - 11 April 2009 at 11:01am
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peacemaker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peacemaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2009 at 10:36am

It is important that we all comply with guidelines and stick to the topic.

Peace


Edited by peacemaker - 11 April 2009 at 10:38am
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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hat2010 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hat2010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2009 at 11:56am
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Edited by Jamal Morelli - 30 October 2009 at 8:47am
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2009 at 12:23pm
I am a revert to Islam. I am the only Muslim in my maternal/paternal families. Many of my friends are non-Muslim and I live in the U.S. where virtually all of my neighbors are non-Muslim. Surrounded by and related to non-Muslims as I am on a daily basis, I am never privy to the types of abuse that occurs here. Never.
 
I assume this is because most people, whatever their belief, would find it extremely rude to walk into someone's home and barrage them with highly offensive remarks, disguised as queries, regarding their religion. Nor would most normal people accost one on the street and do the same.
 
As I read the the various topics posted on the forum and the subsequent posts I am often amused and sometimes amazed at how indignant non-Muslims become when we respond to their posts in kind. 
Topics such as "Sad", "Shariah Law?", "Not Necessarily Domestic Violence", and "Pray for the future women of the world", "Islam a religion of love?", and "Reason why there are no homosexuals in Islam", etc... are openly insulting and posted in an attempt to protray Muslims and Islam in as bad a light as possible. These topics are eagerly jumped upon and made a "cause concern" by most non-Muslims on this forum, and there seems to be no sensitivity to the fact that the Muslims posting here might find this offensive.
 
However, let someone post a topic such as this one, even if done as an example, and we are immediately accused of double standards and hypocrisy.
 
While I suppose it was perfectly acceptible to post about Muslims raping children to force conversion, it is not quite so acceptible to post about priests raping children because they could do so with impunity. The difference here is that this is one topic, not one of hundreds.
 
I guess it is not so very pleasant having a glaring spotlight thrust upon something that has absolutely nothing to do with your religion or your personal belief system yet  was perpetrated by those who claim to share the same faith so it is suddenly part of YOUR RELIGION, and you are personally responsible for answering to it or explaining why. 
 
I believe this forum was created for the purpose of exchanging ideas, peaceful interaction, the sharing of culture and beliefs. It has instead become a place where we, the hosts, are under constant sniper attack and are accused of being unhospitable and not "being Muslim" when we shoot back. Well, every once in a while it's nice to take the target off of your own back...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 11 April 2009 at 12:40pm
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Servetus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2009 at 12:33pm

Don't take it so personally, Gulliver.  It's not incumbent upon you to defend the indefensible or to answer for anyone's sins except your own: which is, I think, one of the reasons why Jam posted this, as an exercise. 

 

God, by way of Prophet Jeremiah, has an answer, and not a single one in the Curia or upon the so-called Throne of St. Peter -or, for that matter, within the Reformed (Protestant) churches- can ever annul it:

 

"Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 23:1)

 

Serv



Edited by Servetus - 11 April 2009 at 12:40pm
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Gulliver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gulliver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2009 at 2:31pm
 
Hi folks
 
It is difficult for me not to be sensitive about this particular issue. I just had an email tonight from a friend who's back from a holiday in US.  He says, 'you have been very quiet recently', but understands how we all need a break at times. We deal with this issue day in and day out, week in and week out, month in and month out, year in and year out, and it's like swimming against the tide. I am very tired 'fighting'. I was having a break from it, and not expecting to have it shoved in my face in this place too. I was really enjoying my explorations of Islam, and sharing things people actually share. And most recently the poetry of Rumi. I was listening to it a lot yesterday and found it very uplifting. Beautiful stuff.   Anway - no matter about that. But it is something I know a LOT about, not least from personal experience, and maybe one time will talk some more about it, if someone wants. I was driven from 'religion' for many years because of it, and because I did not 'practice' my faith - believed I was nolonger fit to be called 'Christian' either - even though seeking to live a life of belief in God, and trying to do 'good' to others. I see others driven away too - equating God with religious/spiritual abuse. It is the greatest sin of all in my view. I had to fight a monumental battle which I am not long out of, with the 'hierarchy,' and one reason I fought so hard was that I would not give them the power over something they had no right to - the real good in that religion - the beautiful in it - the truly spiritual. They tried to rob it from me once. I was not letting them do it again. It needs another reformation methinks. And it's there, all that good and beauty. Just as it is in Islam. People judge Islam from ignorance - terrorism etc etc etc. That hurts those who know better, believe better in that religion. It's the same with other religions too - if it seems we judge another religion because of those who abuse relgious power. And some of us really do/should know better.  
 
Sorry Jamal. You are right to ask about these things, cause they all come under the umbrella of religious/spiritual abuses. I ask them all the time, and believe me my friend, you cannot even begin to imagine how I have fought and seek to alleviate the suffering of the 'abused' in this country. I'd do the same in Islam, if I were a Muslim. It does NOT mean Islam is bad. It's only about fighting abuses in religion, any religion, that turn people away from God. I also found that the more devout very often were just as hard to 'fight' as the clerics/scholarly types. They perceived an attack on anything to do with the religion as an attack on their faith. I had family members who knew the hell I'd been through not want 'to know'. It's insane. But that is all part of sexual abuse - and spiritual abuse of entire families/communities/societies. It's so much about power and secrecy. Sexual abuse pervades all strata of society, and often the society, or religion is, and chooses to remain, in denial over that issue and how bad it might actually be. I have been told that a Dublin Inquiry about to be released is DEVASTATING. Not devastating enough in my belief. In the sense of hitting those who need hit hardest. The sooner that lot are brought to their knees and stripped of all the power Christ never intended they have - temporal power, the better. A Phoenix may rise from the ashes of that rot and filth.
 
When I highlight any abuse, it is an abuse of religion generally - that hurts any individual to the degree they believe it's somehow 'God' who does this to them, abuses them, and it happens all the time in all religions, and so very many levels. I am highly sensitive to religious abuse of any kind in any religion and I will fight that before I seek to defend the religion.
 
 
Anway - I went off and listened to some Rumi on youtube. It's superb stuff.
 
Now I am going to bed to really switch off from all of this for a while.
 
To answer your question from my experience, much questionning, reading and learning Jamal - no, the bible does not condone child abuse, or abuse of anyone. Not in my understanding anyway. Priests are not told, nor allowed to abuse children.
 
Is it covered up ?!!

A most definite, YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I can personally testify to that from my own experience. But they still have not succeeded in driving me away completely. The journey continues.
 
Good night and God bless folks.
 


Edited by Gulliver - 11 April 2009 at 2:41pm
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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2009 at 7:45pm
As Salamu Alaikum Sister Shasta'sAunt. I too am the only Muslim in my family.Alhamduillah!We are Bless for this we over come fitna on the daily and we know how the deal with non-Muslims because we know were they are coming from, alot of them here do not understand that.I also feel that some get to push the envelope here on this forum everyday.Even though we are giving them Dawah.I use to always post that (This is an Islamic forum so it is only out of respect to greet eachother properly)Muslim or non-Muslim.I seen a DVD on a Kutbah given by Sheik Ahmed Didot called Dawah or Destruction.During his speach he talks about after he finishes and go for diner the other Muslims ask him why are you bothering the Christians? [IMG]smileys/smiley19.gif" align="middle" />

Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 12 April 2009 at 7:43pm
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