Problem areas in the Quran |
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Mansoor_ali
Senior Member Male Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 584 |
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To Apollos Topic:Heaven and Earth were created in 6 days or 8 days? Answer By Dr.Zakir Naik I do agree that the Qur�an says that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days i.e. 6 epochs and it is mentioned in Surah Al A�raf chapter 7 verse 54 Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 3 Surah Hud chapter 11 verse 7 Surah Al Furqan chapter 25 verse 59 Surah Al Sajdah chapter 32 verse 4 Surah Qaf chapter 50 verse 38 Surah Al Hadid chapter 57 verse 4 The verses of the Qur�an which according to you say that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days are Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verses 9 to 12 "Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two days? And do ye join equals With him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds; He set on the (earth) mountains standing firm, High above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, In four days, in accordance with (the needs of) Those who seek (sustenance)." Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth. "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly. They said: "We do come (Together), in willing obedience." So He completed them as seven firmaments in two days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command and We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the decree of (Him) the exalted in might, full of knowledge." [Al-Qur�an 41:9-12] On the face of it, it seems that these verses of the Qur�an give the initial impression that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days. Allah says in the beginning of this verse that those who exploit this information contained in this passage to raise doubts about its authenticity are equally interested in promulgating blasphemy and denying His unity. Allah is telling us that in course of time, there will emerge unbelievers who will make use of this apparent contradiction. 2. Summa means moreover If you analyse these verses carefully, it speaks about 2 different creations: the earth and the heaven. The earth excluding the mountains was created in 2 days and the mountains were set on the earth standing firm and blessed and measured its sustenance in 4 days. Therefore the earth along with the mountains was created in 6 days according to verse 9 and 10. Verse 11 and 12 says, moreover the heavens were created in 2 days. The Arabic word used in the beginning of verse 11 of Surah Fussilat is summa which means; �then� or �moreover�. There are certain Qur�anic translations, which have, used �then� for the word summa which, indicates �afterwards�. If �then� is wrongly used for summa then the total of the creation of heaven and earth will be 8 days which will conflict with other verses of the Qur�an which says heavens and earth were created in 6 days and will also conflict with the Big Bang Theory as well as the verse of the Qur�an Surah Al Ambiya chapter 21 verse 30 which says that heavens and the earth were created simultaneously. Therefore the correct translation of the word summa in this verse would be �moreover�. Abdullah Yusuf Ali has rightly translated the word summa or moreover which clearly gives an indication that while the earth along with the mountains, etc. was created in 6 days simultaneously the heavens were created in 2 days. Therefore the total does not come to 8 days but 6 days. If a builder says that he will construct a 10 storey building and surrounding compound wall in 6 months and after completion of his project he gives a more detailed account saying that the basement of the building was built in 2 months and the 10 storeys took 4 months and simultaneously, while the basement and the building was being constructed, he also constructed the surrounding of the building along with the compound wall which took 2 months. Therefore both his first and second descriptions are not contradicting but the second statement gives a more detailed account for the construction. 3. Heavens and the Earth created simultaneously The Qur�an describe the creation of the universe in several places, sometimes it says the heavens and the earth (7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59, 32:4, 50:38, 57:4) while in other places it says earth and the heaven (49:9-12, 2:29, 20:4) thus further supplementing the verse of Surah Al Ambiya chapter 21 verse 30 which speaks about the Big-Bang and that the heavens and the earth were created simultaneously. Similarly in Surah Al-Baqara chapter 2 verse 29 "It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge." [Al-Qur�an 2:29] "It is who has created for you all things on the earth summa simultaneously made the heaven into seven firmaments". Here also if you wrongly translate summa as �then� only then would this verse contradict the Big-bang theory and other verses of the Qur�an. Therefore the correct translation of the word summa is �moreover� or �simultaneously�. |
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Apollos
Senior Member Joined: 29 January 2009 Status: Offline Points: 426 |
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Mansoor Ali,
I am more confused than I first was. It seems like you are contradicting what Seek said and it seems like you are actually contradicting your own statements with whether God created everything simultaneously or in a sequence. Will you or someone try to simplify what you are saying and show how each of these various statements of the Quran reconcile?
Apollos
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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MY QUESTION OUT OF THAT CONFLICTING PRSENTED VERSE WAS "IS THE LORD OF DAVID THEN SATAN ? GOD FORBID! {READ BOTH VERSES AGAIN}
Likewise, II Samuel 6:23 - " Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had NO CHILD until the day of her death"
II Samuel 21:8 is different - "But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth ; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzilai the Neholathite.
Did Michal have children or not ?
Note : The name Michal in II Samuel 21:8 is still present in the King James version and the New World Translation of the holy Scriptures used by the Jehovah's Witnesses but is changed to Merab in the New American Standard Bible 1973
[extract from H.M Baagil 's dialogue with a christian]
Edited by seekshidayath - 20 March 2009 at 7:11pm |
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Then you are welcome Apollos, if you are really honest. Incidentally, all of your, so called contradictions were similar to those from anti-Islam. We don't have any problem even if you present from anti-islamic site, but the point is such people, don't really ponder or look into Qur'an. I just want them to study seriously and honestly. If at all you have any questions, it shall be my pleasure to answer you, honestly ! I shall try my best to answer , else, get them answered to you by our other members, who possess better knowledge. Anyways, i shall look to answer, any other question unanswered.
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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[QUOTE=Apollos][QUOTE=Saladin][QUOTE=Apollos]
Is the evil in our life from Satan (Sura 4:117-120), from Allah (Sura 4:78), or from ourselves (Sura 4:79)? (4:118) upon whom Allah has laid His curse. He said (to Allah): 'I will take to myself an appointed portion of Your servants146
(4:119) and shall lead them astray, and shall engross them in vain desires, and I shall command them and they will cut off the ears of the cattle,147 and I shall command them and they will disfigure Allah's creation.'148 He who took Satan rather than Allah for his guardian has indeed suffered a man-ifest loss.
Satan induces us to sin but we sin out of our freewill.
Thanks for the clarification. (BTW-this is the basic explanation for the Bible "contradiction" Seek listed in his post).
Can you explain further how the references to Allah being the source are understood?
(4:78) Wherever you might be, death will overtake you even though you be in massive towers. And when some good happens to them, they say: 'This is from Allah'; whereas when some misfortune befalls them, they say: 'This is because of you'.109 Say: 'All is from Allah.' What has happened to this people that they seem to understand nothing?
*109. When such people encounter success and victory, they attribute it to the grace of God. They allow themselves to forget that this grace came to them through no one but the Prophet (peace be on him). When they are either beaten or face setbacks because of their own faults and weaknesses they gratuitously exonerate themselves and place the blame squarely on the Prophet (peace be on him).
(4:79) Whatever good happens to you is from Allah; and whatever misfortune smites you is because of your own action. We have sent you to mankind (O Muhammad!) as a Messenger, and Allah is sufficient as a witness.110
*110. Such people are responsible for their own conduct. It is they rather than the Prophet (peace be on him) who will be censured. The task entrusted to the Prophet (peace be on him) was merely to communicate to them the ordinances and directives of God and he acquitted himself of it very well. It was not his duty to compel them to follow the right way, so that if they failed to follow the teachings communicated to them by the Prophet (peace be on him) the responsibility was entirely theirs. The Prophet (peace be on him) would not be questioned as to why they disobeyed.
Ok, i shall add bit more explanation to this. This is about the people of Pharoah
(And if some good reaches them) meaning, fertile years and provision of fruits, produce, children, etc., they say, "This is from Allah,'' but if some evil befalls them like drought, famine, shortages of fruits and produce, death that strikes their children or animals, and so forth they say, "This is from you,'' meaning, because of you and because we followed you and embraced your religion. Thus, if evil afflicted them, they ascribed it to evil omens connected with Musa and those with him. The same is the statement uttered by the hypocrites, who embraced Islam outwardly, but disliked it inwardly. This is why when a calamity befell them, they attributed it to following the Prophet Allah then said while addressing His Messenger , but refering to mankind in general, Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, meaning, of Allah's bounty, favor, kindness and mercy is from Allah swt. But whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself., meaning because of you and due to your actions. Similarly, Allah said, And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much. As said, above {post} that the final decision to decide and act between satan's whisperings and goodness, is with us.
You can still post any doubts you have out of these answered. InshaAllah, {If Allah wills}, we shall move to next
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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JOUBERAR
Guest Group Joined: 13 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
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No satan is not David god but he could have been easily mislead by satan even today satan is in control of this world.
There a difference between Michal and Merab may be it was a misprint I hope we can solve more problemsin future.
The AOV,ASV,BBE and ESV Bibles stands Merab but all KJV Bibles it is writen Michal
2Sa 6:23 And Michal, Saul's daughter, had no child till the day of her death.
2Sa 21:8 But the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Saul to whom Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah, had given birth; and the five sons of Saul's daughter Merab, whose father was Adriel, the son of Barzillai the Meholathite: |
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mariyah
Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
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Hmmm..
Very simple, the answer is in secular history, which Christians dont ascribe to because it often undermines the truths of their respective faiths.
Do you have a torah written in the original Aramaic, then you have the true scriptures. That also goes for the Injeel, or gospel. Jesus spoke Aramaic, not the current version of European origin "hebrew". And are you a qualified scholar of the aramaic language? if not, then what does the bible yours today really say? And tsk tsk, The pagan emperor Constantine burned all manuscripts that opposed his rewritten texts after the council of Nicea in century 3 CE. What a pity. The new Bible incorporated the values of pagan rome to entice the romans to convert to the "new religion". And anyone who objected to his new made up version were branded as heretics. Ask the followers of Arius.
Most Scholars of the Quran will tell you that most or all of the translations of the quran today are not concise or accurate. They are provided to help those who cannot learn or read or understand arabic to understand THE ESSENCE of the Quran. I have copies of several translations and I have had a local scholar who teaches our quranic arabic classes SHOW US the inconsistencies. This is a native arabic speaker who was schooled in the middle east in classical quaranic arabic who is making these statements.
So you can search through the English versions all you want to try to trip us up. Please read the Quran in Arabic and then you will understand it. Do you read Arabic?
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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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