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Eaisha 
Starter 
Female Joined: 06 March 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
 Posted: 06 March 2009 at 2:35pm |
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I always like to find the things both Islam and Christianity have in common - rather than exploit the differences.
For example, both Muslims & Christians have a firm common bind in:
But Number 4 seems to be the best place to begin taking stock. |
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believer
Guest Group 
Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397 |
Posted: 07 March 2009 at 5:39am |
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Anyone know - verse 3:55 are the words I am, I am really used twice?
Literal:
When God said: "You Jesus I am, I am making you die and raising you to Me and purifying you from those who disbelieved, and making those who followed you above those who disbelieved to the Resurrection Day, then to Me (is) your return, so I judge/rule between you in what, you were in it differing .
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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Eaisha
Starter
Female Joined: 06 March 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
Posted: 13 March 2009 at 10:54am |
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�Behold! The Angels said: O Mary! God giveth thee tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter And of (the company of) those nearest to God�. (Imran 3:45)
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JOUBERAR
Guest Group
Joined: 13 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
Posted: 13 March 2009 at 6:03pm |
If Jesus was only if prophet as quran stated it then he also could have sinned like all the other prophets why then call him the messiah or wait for his second coming if was only a prophet.
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_ALI_
Groupie 
Male Joined: 17 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:10am |
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Salam believer
Sorry for the delay. I was a bit busy.
OK so in arabic we really don't know if it is GOD's WORD or GOD's word, but we do know that no other on the face of earth had it thrown away to them.
Same with GOD's soul, none other had it literally thrown away to them:
Literal:So when/if I straightened him, and I blew in him from My Soul/Sprit , so fall/land/come to him prostrating. 32:9 Literal:Then He straightened Him, and He blew in Him from His Soul/Spirit , and He made/put for you the hearing/listening, and the eye sights/knowledge, and the hearts , little (is) what you thank/be grateful. 38:72 Literal:So if I straightened him, and I blew in him from My Soul/Spirit , so fall/come to him prostrating. So you say Jesus' soul was thrown away from God. God blew His soul into Adam. Hence Jesus is more pure. That is a bit ridiculous. If you read carefully, 4:171 does not say God threw His soul. It says God threw a soul. And with Adam, it is specifically mentioned that God blew His soul into Adam. Surely Adam is a better candidate for God's son. Furthermore, there is only one translation which mentions the "throwing", other translations do not even mention it. They just say that Jesus was given a soul/spirit from God. While reading Quran, you should consult many translations, don't just stick with one. In reality, whether His soul or a soul, God does not have a son and we Muslims do not argue about which prophet is better.
Mary's son, GOD"S SON that wasn't my point, but the fact that Jesus was pure and no other "man" has ever been.
002.130 وَمَنْ يَرْغَبُ عَنْ مِلَّةِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ إِلا مَنْ سَفِهَ نَفْسَهُ وَلَقَدِ اصْطَفَيْنَاهُ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَإِنَّهُ فِي الآخِرَةِ لَمِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ 002.130 And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous. Al-Qur'an, 002.130 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
003.038 هُنَالِكَ دَعَا زَكَرِيَّا رَبَّهُ قَالَ رَبِّ هَبْ لِي مِنْ لَدُنْكَ ذُرِّيَّةً طَيِّبَةً إِنَّكَ سَمِيعُ الدُّعَاءِ
003.038 There did Zakariya pray to his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer! Al-Qur'an, 003.038 (Aal-E-Imran [The Family of Imran])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
Zakariya is the father of John the Baptist who is actually referred to as pure.
yes you are correct it is
43:61
Literal:
And that he/it truly is knowledge (E) to the Resurrection/Time of Resurrection/Hour, so do not doubt/argue (E) with it, and follow Me, that (is a) straight/direct road/way.
So even with the literal they have added:
E) to the Resurrection/Time of Resurrection/Hour, so do not doubt/argue (E)
Are there any literal with nothing added translations out there?
The arabic word used is Saa' literally meaning moment/hour. The moment you add "time of resurrection", it no longer remains literal. The translator probably added time of Resurrection for clarification. But my original point was, you cannot take everything literal especially in the case of arabic. The literal translation you gave was that:He (Jesus) is knowledge. Does that make any sense? Shouldn't Jesus be man (according to us) or god (according to you). Hence the literal translation "He is knowledge" does not make sense in English. To demonstrate this verse, the translators translate
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour
or
He is a means of the knowledge of Resurrection
Ali - in verse 3:55 are the words I am, I am really used twice?
Literal:
When God said: "You Jesus I am, I am making you die and raising you to Me and purifying you from those who disbelieved, and making those who followed you above those who disbelieved to the Resurrection Day, then to Me (is) your return, so I judge/rule between you in what, you were in it differing .
The arabic and transliteration is
003.055 إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ثُمَّ إِلَيَّ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَأَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ فِيمَا كُنْتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ 003.055 I[th] q[a]la All[a]hu y[a] AAees[a] innee mutawaffeeka war[a]fiAAuka ilayya wamu[t]ahhiruka mina alla[th]eena kafaroo waj[a]AAilu alla[th]eena ittabaAAooka fawqa alla[th]eena kafaroo il[a] yawmi alqiy[a]mati thumma ilayya marjiAAukum faa[h]kumu baynakum feem[a] kuntum feehi takhtalifoon(a) Al-Qur'an, 003.055 (Aal-E-Imran [The Family of Imran])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
The word INNEE translated has been translated "I am" in the literal one you gave and it is translated as "I will" in many other translations. As you can see from the arabic/transliteration, it is only used once.
Peace |
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_ALI_
Groupie
Male Joined: 17 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:28am |
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Salam JOUBERAR
If Jesus was only if prophet as quran stated it then he also could have sinned like all the other prophets
Unlike Christianity, in Islam, the prophets do not knowingly commit sins. They may commit small mistake like Jonah did but they are then immediately corrected by God.
why then call him the messiah or wait for his second coming if was only a prophet.
A messiah does not mean a person who is sinless. It only means a deliverer. And like I said, all prophets including Jesus Christ did not knowingly commit sins. And for a second coming, you don't have to be a god. You can be a prophet and come back if God wills. And he will come back to defeat Dajjal (antiChrist) and to correct the Christians. As the Bible says
Mathew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Peace
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JOUBERAR
Guest Group
Joined: 13 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
Posted: 15 March 2009 at 11:21am |
You tell me prophets never sinned get your facts together and so any prophet can be a messiah.
Why then have dajjal got his own heaven and own hell if God is the only one who have a heaven and a hell he is only one who got the power to through someone in to hell.
The deity of Christ is the real stumbling block for many in accepting Christianity as true. It is here that Jews, Moslems, Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many others come to grief. It is from misbelief or at least inadequate belief about the incarnation that difficulties at other points of the gospel story usually spring.
Following Christ is more than just following in the footsteps of a great man. To be a Christian means accepting the absolute uniqueness of His person. Jesus is different from any other person who has ever lived. What do we know about the present activities of Christ? First we know that all authority on heaven and earth has been given to Christ (Matt 28:18). This means that Jesus is the active sustainer of the universe. You can thank Him that everything doesn't just fly into bits. As the active force in creation, He willed the universe into existence. Now the force of His will keeps the natural laws which we call physics, chemistry, and biology etc in effect.
Secondly, Jesus is the head of His Church (Eph 1:22, Col 1:18). The Church is the body of Christ because all saved persons are saved into Christ. In John 16:13 we are told that the Spirit teaches what He hears. The Spirit is present in heaven before Christ to hear the many things Christ has yet to tell us (John 16:12-15). Christ has the powe to take us the many and form us into one body of many members, the Church. Thirdly, Jesus is the giver of Spiritual gifts through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Christ has both called and equipped us for the service of the Church and worship of Him. While some gifts are universal in nature some are given only to certain people (Rom 12:3-8, I Cor 12:4-11). Christ has a plan for each one of us according to His purpose (Phil 2:13, Eph 2:10, Jn 10:10). We should not reject what God has given us the ability to do. We need to recognize that often the reasons for the way He has equipped us us not apparent to us. Fourthly, Jesus intercedes for us, this He began to do before He left earth (John 17:1-26) This means that Jesus is praying for you now, today. Because He is all powerful He is able to turn His attention to all of us individually. He will continue this ministry as long as any of His people are on earth (John 17:20). This present ministry of Christ was given to us in the twenty-third Psalm by David. It is because He continually has us in His mind, that our salvation is secure if we are born again to Christ. Fifthly, Jesus is our advocate before the judgment throne of God. If it were not for the advocacy of Christ in heaven our sins as Christians would destroy the fellowship we have with God. What is necessary on our part is to be sorry for and confess our sin to Him (1 John 1:9). Jesus pleads our cause before God, and the sufficiency of His death to pay for the penalty that is rightfully ours. Sixthly, Christ is building. He has gone ahead of us into heaven and is preparing a place for us to reside (John 14:1-3). Jesus has taken personal interest in our future abode! Seventhly, Jesus is expecting to return for us. He is preparing to return at a time known only the Father (Mark 13:32). We do not know when this time will occur, but there will be enough time to gather the harvest. All authourity on heaven and earth has been given to Christ why after 500 years do we need someone elses authority.
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Nur_Ilahi
Senior Member 
Joined: 19 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1031 |
Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:09pm |
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This means that Jesus is the active sustainer of the universe. You can thank Him that everything doesn't just fly into bits. As the active force in creation, He willed the universe into existence.
He could not even rescue himself from being tied up on the cross, how can you say that he willed the universe in existence?
His death is so pitiful, how could you associate him with Majesty that only belongs to Allah The Creator of the whole universe?
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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_ALI_ wrote: