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Akhe Abdullah 
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 Posted: 01 February 2009 at 2:58am |
 Honzo wrote:
Akhe Abdullah wrote:
As Salaamu Alaikum Brothers and Sisters and other Members of this Forum.I just want to clarify my use of the word Kufr.It is indeed an insult. When I use it to decribe the unbelievers I mean those who Disbelief,to cover up the truth to reject Allah and refuse to believe that Muhammad(PBUH) is His Messenger.Now it is coming close to acting in bad character just as Kufrs act I guess so, if you chose to see it that way.I apoligise if I have hurt anyones feelings.Example im am a son of a Kufr as a matter of fact all my relatives would be lable as such.Not right!even though it is true by defenition.I can only make Dua for her and for them.I dont say Salams Kufr Mom ect so I try not to use the word directly at someone.(Inshallah) Wa Alaikum As Salam Wa Ramatullah |
w/salam brother,The word �kafir� (and variations of it) is mentioned in the Qur�an in five different senses:
1. Kufr al-tawheed: to reject the belief in the Oneness of God. The Qur�an says what means: <p align="left">*{As to those who reject faith (kafaru), it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe }* (Al-Baqarah 2:6) 2. Kufr al-ni`mah: to lack gratefulness to God or to people. The Qur�an says what means: <p align="left">*{Therefore remember Me, I will remember you, and be thankful to Me, and do not be ungrateful to Me (la takfurun)}* (Al-Baqarah 2:152) <p align="left">*{[Pharaoh> said [to Moses>: � And you did [that> deed of yours which you did, and you are one of the ungrateful (kafireen)}* (Ash-Shu`araa� 26:18-19) 3. Kufr at-tabarri: to disown/clear oneself from. The Qur�an says what means: <p align="left">*{Indeed,
there is for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him when they
said to their people: �Surely we are clear of you (kafarna bekom).�}* (Al-Mumtahanah 60:4)<span id="ToolBar2"></span> 4. Kufr al-juhud: to deny. The Qur�an says what means: <p align="left">*{When there comes to them that which they [should> have recognized, they deny (kafaru) it.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:89) 5. Kufr at-taghtiyah: to hide/bury something, like planting a seed in the ground. The Qur�an says what means: <p align="left">*{The likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the husbandmen/tillers (kuffar.}* (Al-Hadid 57:20) Exegesis (tafseer) scholars decide as to which meaning of the word �kufr/kafir� is meant in a specific verse based on the context. Therefore, not every use of the root �ka fa ra� means the rejection of faith. For example, when the Prophet (peace be upon him) warned some of his companions from becoming �kuffar�
after his death, he did not mean that they would become disbelievers
but rather that they would become ungrateful to Allah, for the blessing
of unity, when they fight each other after his death.
Regarding whether to call non-Muslims �kuffar� or not, the
answer is that we should call people the names that the Qur�an gave
them. In the Qur�an, you will not find a single �O disbelievers� (�Ya Kuffar�, �Ya ayuhalathina kafaru�, or �Ya ayuhal-kafirun�) other than in the following two places:
1. In Hellfire, we seek refuge in Allah from it. The Qur�an says what means: <p align="left">*{[Then it will be said>: �O ye who disbelieve (Ya ayuhalathina kafaru)! Make no excuses for yourselves this day.}* (At-Tahrim 66:7) So, it is something that is said to them by Allah Almighty or by the angels, not by us.
2. In Surat Al-Kafirun (109) that you mentioned in your question. It says what means: <p align="left">*{Say [O Muhammad>: �O ye that reject faith (al-Kafirun)! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship.�}* But
this surah is addressing Prophet Muhammad and therefore must be
understood in its historical context. Allah is asking Prophet Muhammad
(peace be upon him) to address a group of leaders from Makkah who
offered him the following deal: That they all �including Muhammad�
worship God for one year and then they all worship the idols for the
next year, and so on. That is why Allah asked him to address them in
this term �rejecters of faith� and to refuse to accept this kind of
deal.
In the rest of the Qur�an, however, the Qur�anic style followed two principals:
1. To label certain sayings or actions to be sayings or actions of kufr
(disbelief or rejection of faith), without labeling any specific group
of people with that name and calling them with it. For example, the
Qur�an says what means: <p align="left">*{Certainly
they disbelieve who say: Surely God is the third [person> of the three.
And there is no god but One God, and if they desist not from what they
say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who
disbelieve [reject>. Will they not then turn to Allah and ask His
forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary
is but a messenger; messengers before him have indeed passed away; and
his mother was a truthful woman.}* (Al-Ma�idah 5:73-75) 2.
To distinguish clearly between idol-worshippers, on one hand, and
believers in God and a Script that went through a phase of corruption,
on the other hand. Allah called the later group only by the name
�People of the Book.� For example, the Qur�an says what means: <p align="left">*{Quite
a number of the People of the Book wish they could turn you [people>
back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the
truth hath become manifest unto them. But, forgive and overlook, till
Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.}*
(Al-Baqarah 2:109) <p align="left">*{It
is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from
their homes at the first gathering [of the forces>. Little did ye think
that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would
defend them from Allah! But the [wrath of> Allah came to them from
quarters from which they little expected [it>, and cast terror into
their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands
and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes [to
see>!}* (Al-Hashr 59:2) In
today�s world, we should use the same term �People of the Book� with
Christians and Jews, or call them Christians and Jews, if they wish to
be called so, or simply call them �non-Muslims�.
As for dealing with non-Muslims, the general rule is mentioned in the verse that says what means: <p align="left">*{Allah
does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you
on account of [your> religion, and have not driven you forth from your
homes, that you show them kindness (birr) and deal with them
justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you
respecting those who made war upon you on account of [your> religion,
and drove you forth from your homes and backed up [others> in your
expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends
with them, these are the unjust.}* (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9) And notice that the word �birr�
(translated as kindness) that Allah used in this context is the same
word that is used for the type of kindness that a Muslim should show
his/her parents as in birr al-walidain )kindness to parents)!!
Finally, it is fair enough before labeling any person as a
�rejecter of faith� to make sure that he/she is clearly aware of that
faith and what it entails. In my view, most people in today�s world did
not reject the message because simply they are not aware of what Islam
is. This is largely due to the biased international media and to
Muslims themselves falling short to present their religion properly to
the world. These uninformed people, again in my view, could only fall
under the verse that says what means: <p align="left">*{No laden soul can bear another's load, We never punish until we have sent a messenger.}* (Al-Israa� 17:15) And Allah knows best.
Taken from reading Islam
TRANSKRAFT� wrote:
]Kuffar and Kaafir: Should we be using these terms&? |
The article posted by brother is written by Abdul wahab najdi, founder of wahabi movement and most of the thing mentioned in tht article does not constitute kufr.pls refer,Tawassul: Supplicating Allah through an Intermediary |
As Salaamu Alaikum Honzo.Jazakallah Kheiran for your reply
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Akhe Abdullah
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Posted: 01 February 2009 at 3:07am |
seekshidayath wrote:
Akhe Abdullah wrote:
As Salaamu Alaikum Brothers and Sisters and other Members of this Forum.I just want to clarify my use of the word Kufr.It is indeed an insult. When I use it to decribe the unbelievers I mean those who Disbelief,to cover up the truth to reject Allah and refuse to believe that Muhammad(PBUH) is His Messenger.Now it is coming close to acting in bad character just as Kufrs act I guess so, if you chose to see it that way.I apoligise if I have hurt anyones feelings.Example im am a son of a Kufr as a matter of fact all my relatives would be lable as such.Not right!even though it is true by defenition.I can only make Dua for her and for them.I dont say Salams Kufr Mom ect so I try not to use the word directly at someone.(Inshallah) Wa Alaikum As Salam Wa Ramatullah |
�
Wa'laikum salam wa Rahmatullah,
�
Where have been akhe since few days ?
�
Anyways, yes i do agree that to call a person directly as "O, Kafir, {disbeliever}" is wrong. For only Allah swt knows ones state of heart. But remember, Allah swt, did address the disbelievers, as " Ya ayyuhal kafiroon - O you who disbelieve". Just� as believers are addressed, "O you who believe ". We also get to learn from Qur'an, Allah addressing the whole humanity. Likewise, even hypocrites are being addressed. This way, different� characteristics of them��are defined, so that we identify ourselves and correct ourselves before we meet Him. Even we muslims need to check ourselves, if we commit acts of kufr.
�
If you find any person, addressing anyone particularly, as "kafir", ask him to prove you that its permissible in Islam. He shall neither be able� to show you a single verse or a hadith, neither a fatwa {ruling} of any scholar. I wish you to handle him softly, so that he changes his attitude. After all he is your brother in Islam. If he still does n't listen to you, just be quiet, because, you finished your job for him and Allah swt shall not question you,
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As Salaamu Alaikum SeekShidayath Jazakallah Kheiran for your reply. Mashallah
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Akhe Abdullah
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Posted: 01 February 2009 at 3:24am |
Hayfa wrote:
Akhe Abdullah, I guess my question for you is why worry about the label? I guess I am perpelexed by what difference does it make? Our goal should be to demonstrate the true qualities of what a Muslim should be. We should emulate the Prophet to the best of our abilities.
Its like focusing on this point does exactly what? What may I ask... and assuming you are a revert.. coulnt your blessings. Focus on being humble and grateful.
And I don't know what your mother believes or does not believe. The point is she is still your mother and your obligation is to show her kindness, respect and the mercy you would give to any human being up to the moment they die. YOU will be judged on how you treat her. Period. Whether she is nonMuslim or is a Muslim. and in fact, I would argue that if you treat her poorly and give HER a bad impression of what a true, devout Muslim should be then you could be held accountable for that.
No matter the human being we are interacting with, we will be held accountable for our deeds.
�
And in fact those of us her were not Muslim at one point, most of us encountered very kind Muslims. It had a powerful influence as role models that embodies the spirit and values of Islam.� I even took a trip to Pakistan by myself�because the people were so kind and helpful. �
�
Imagine if YOUR good deeds influence a nonMuslim to look at Islam. What rewards will be given to you! |
As Salaamu Alaikum Haya.Shukran
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Akhe Abdullah
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Posted: 01 February 2009 at 3:44am |
Jamal Morelli wrote:
Two: Since this is a somewhat free zone for ideas, I'd like to say that brothers and sisters like Akhe Abdullah, JihadX and many before should be kept in perspective and clearly understood as....
a) Not any kind of religious authority
b) Not representative of anyone but themselves
c) Not holding opinions that are universally agreed upon within the Umma, Madhabs, etc.
Three: For the Trolls:
Your best arguments are easily found in the half-educated, intolerant members of our communities - but you are only fooling yourselves if you decide they speak for Muslims everywhere all of whom to whose caring for are what the Prophet endlessly spoke of as the real way out of the Dunya and Hellfire - I find these Kafir conversations tasteless, offensive, blinding.
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As Salaamu Alaikum Jamal Morelli.You are very good at naming names huh?May Allah help us to correct ourselves and conduct ourselves in the ways of Prophet Muhammed Sallalahu alahi wa' Salam.(Ameen)
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TRANSKRAFT
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Posted: 01 February 2009 at 6:37am |
Bismillah,
To Honzo:
Brother Honzo, I sincerely regret that as a Muslim you are rejecting the simplest and most basic fundamentals mentioned in the article and derived from the teachings of the Qur�an and Sunnah.
Your additional input is enlightening and adds a more disintegrated flavour to the subject, without making any incorrect judgements.
It is in line with my personal principles to post on the board and to provide names of authors/ other references to the content which is not mine. You have chosen to ignore these, and came up with what I believe, a different name that was possibly revealed to you through some intermediary� or was it whispering?
Allow me to correct you, for I do not subscribe to any of the sects, movements, groups, schools of thought, political parties or whatsoever� I am just an ordinary Muslim, never free from sin or error, yet seeking Allah�s Mercy and Forgiveness.
My simple advice to you is not from Abdul Wahab of the Wahabi Movement or Sheikh of the so-called Sunni Path� it is from the last Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in the form of the following hadith:
Reported by Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by worshipping in the mornings, the nights." (Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 38), (See Fath-ul-Bari, Page 102, Vol 1).
And Allah knows best.
Edited by TRANSKRAFT - 01 February 2009 at 6:41am
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seekshidayath
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Posted: 01 February 2009 at 7:46am |
As Salamu Alaikum
Akhe, just returned from a seminar and thought to share this with you, as its concerned with the topic of discussion. It was said that , we shud n't take "kafir" as a word of insult at all. Kafir is a term used for disbeliever, Am a kafir for hindus as i disbelieve there faith, acc to them. Likewise of other faiths. Its not at all a word of insult at all.
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Honzo
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Posted: 01 February 2009 at 9:09pm |
TRANSKRAFT wrote:
Bismillah,
To Honzo:
Brother Honzo, I sincerely regret that as a Muslim you are rejecting the simplest and most basic fundamentals mentioned in the article and derived from the teachings of the Qur�an and Sunnah.
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Brother the veiw point tht i hv posted is not based on my personal opinion but it has been the veiw point of majority of scholars of Ahle sunnah wal jammah and backed by the amal of sahaba (RA) and authentic hadith.
Here is few examples as list is endless.
Imam Ahmad and Tawassul:
:( المرداوي في الإنصاف ( 2:456
�� يجوز التوسل بالرجل الصالح على الصحيح من المذهب، وقيل:
يُستحب. قال الإمام أحمد للمروذي : يتوسل بالنبي صلى اله عليه وسلم في دعائه
وجزم به في المستوعب وغيره..�
Al-Mardawi said: �The correct position of the
[Hanbali] madhhab is that it is permissible in one�s du`a to use as
one�s means a pious person (saalih), and it is said that it is
desirable (mustahabb). Imam Ahmad said to Abu Bakr al-Marwazi: �Let him
use the Prophet as a means in his supplication to Allah  .�� (Al-Insaf 2:456) This is also cited by Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmu� Al-Fatawa (1:140).
Imam Shawkani and Tawassul:
قال الشوكاني في تحفة الذاكرين:
�وفي الحديث دليل على جواز التوسل برسول الله صلى اله عليه وسلم إلى الله عز وجل
مع اعتقاد أن الفاعل هو الله سبحانه وتعالى، وأنه المعطي والمانع ما شاء
.(10/ كان وما لم يشأ لم يكن� (تحفة الأحوذي 34
Al-Shawkani said, in Tuhfatul Dhakireen:
�And in this hadith is proof for the permissibility of tawassul through the Prophet [s] to Allah , with the conviction that the [actual] doer is Allah , and that He is the Giver and the Withholder. What He wills is, and what He does not will, will never be.�
Al-Albani on Imam Hanbal and Imam Al-Shawkani:
:( الألباني في �التوسل أنواعه وأحكامه� ( 38
��مع أنه قد قال ببعضه بعض الأئمة، فأجاز الإمام أحمد التوسل
بالرسول وحده فقط، وأجاز غيره كالإمام الشوكاني التوسل به وبغيره من
الأنبياء والصالحي
Al-Albani in �Al-Tawassul�: �Even though some of
them have been allowed by some of the Imams, so for instance Imam Ahmad
bin Hanbal allowed tawassul through the Prophet alone, and others such
as Imam Al-Shawkani allowed tawassul through his [pbuh] and through
others from the Prophets and the righteous.�
Imam Nawawi on Tawassul:
النووي في المجموع شرح المهذب (كتاب الحج):
ثم يرجع إلى موقفه الأول قبالة وجه رسول الله صلى اله عليه وسلم ويتوسل به في حق
نفسه، ويستشفع به إلى ربه سبحانه وتعالى
[The pilgrim] should then face the shrine of the Messenger of Allah (s) , make him an intermediary [to Allah ], and intercede through him to Allah � (Majmu� Sharh Al-Madhhab - Kitab Al-Hajj)
Imam Ibn Khuzaymah and Tawassul:
:(7/ ابن حجر في تهذيب التهذيب ( 339
قال (الحاكم النيسابوري) وسمعت أبا بكر محمد بن المؤمل بن الحسن
بن عيسى يقول خرجنا مع امام أهل الحديث أبي بكر بن خزيمة وعديله
أبي علي الثقفي مع جماعة من مشائخنا وهم إذ ذاك متوافرون إلى زيارة
قبر علي بن موسى الرضى بطوس قال فرأيت من تعظيمه يعنى ابن خزيمة
لتلك البقعة وتواضعه لها وتضرعه عندها ما تحيرنا.
Ibn Hajar (Tahdhib 7:339) narrates the account of
the Imam of Ahlul-Hadith Ibn Khuzaymah, under the entry of the same Ali
bin Musa Al-Ridha. He relates that Ibn Khuzaymah also performed
tawassul at the grave of Al-Ridha.
Ibn Hibban and Tawassul:
:(8/456/ ابن حبان في كتابه الثقات ( 14411
مات على بن موسى الرضا بطوس من شربة سقاه إياها المأمون فمات من
ساعته وذلك في يوم السبت آخر يوم سنة ثلاث ومائتين وقبره بسناباذ
خارج النوقان مشهور يزار بجنب قبر الرشيد، قد زرته مرارا كثيرة وما
حلت بي شدة في وقت مقامى بطوس فزرت قبر على بن موسى الرضا
صلوات الله على جده وعليه ودعوت الله إزالتها عنى إلا أستجيب لي
وزالت عنى تلك الشدة وهذا شيء جربته مرارا فوجدته كذلك أماتنا
الله على محبة المصطفى وأهل بيته صلى الله عليه وعليهم أجمعين.
In his Rijal book Al-Thuqat (8:456:14411), under
the entry of Ali bin Musa al-Ridha, Ibn Hibban relates his own account
of going to Al-Ridha�s grave, performing tawassul through him and
states that whenever �I was afflicted with a problem during my stay in
Tus, I would visit the grave of Ali bin Musa (Allah �s blessings be upon his grandfather and him) and ask Allah
to relieve me of that problem and it (my dua) would be answered and the
problem alleviated. And this is something I did, and found to work, many times ��
Seeking Aid with the Prophet - Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haythami {PDF}
should Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, Imam Ibn Khuzaima, Imam Ibn Hibban, Imam
Nawawi and Imam Shawkani be considered kuffar based on this?
It is in line with my personal principles to post on the board and to provide names of authors/ other references to the content which is not mine. You have chosen to ignore these, and came up with what I believe, a different name that was possibly revealed to you through some intermediary� or was it whispering?
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Brother u missed my whole point, the issue of calling a person kafir is a very fragile issue and sheikh Abdul wahab has made some huge blunders in his book (abstract) from u which u posted, hence i only higligted tht those things doesnt constitute kufr.
I would req. u to go in to deeper learning of deen.
And Allah Knows Best.
Edited by Honzo - 01 February 2009 at 9:49pm
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The femininity of the crescent, the masculinity of the cross. (Max Ernst, Men shall know nothing of this.)
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Hyposonic
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Posted: 01 February 2009 at 10:42pm |
Hayfa: "I guess I am perpelexed by what difference does it make? Our goal should be to demonstrate the true qualities of what a Muslim should be. We should emulate the Prophet to the best of our abilities."
I think the current topic is good. I cannot comment on Mr. Abdullah�s desire to explain, but for individual�s like myself, I find such discussions beneficial.
At present, and quietly observing, I see the terms here (Kufr) being thrown around as not in the effect as a corrective label so-to-speak, but as a perjorative term used to slander another person. Now from my understanding apart of the definition of being a Kafir, or one enganging in Kufr, if apart of this term is �one who turns away� how can Muslim scholars accurate assert where or how one consciously turns away from Islam without considering other variables? Some individuals may have negative experiences, some don�t but if scholars are going to say someone is consciously turning away from Islam without giving the reasons then it seems that the edict of this particular area of theology maybe flawed.
For example, if I�m told I�m going to hell simply for not being Muslim and the individual telling me this is trying to get me to convert then most definitely I�d make a conscious effort to turn away [given my mindset]. It�s funny, when I traveled to Jerusalem I spoke with an individual whose name I won�t reveal but I�ll called Ahmed who was friendly, but on religion he was very rude. He said to me once �when you come into Islam, only then will you experience the full spectrum of humanity.� So in connection with the thread I guess the terms kafir and Kufr ought to be explained in detail.
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