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Humanity's purpose
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honeto View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

51:56 And [tell them that] I have not created the invisible beings  and men to any end other than that they may [know and] worship Me. 
 
I have been going over this verse in several English translations and see that the terms "worship" and "serve" are alternately used by the various translators. In your reference, "know me" has been included in addition to "worship".
 
Being very interested in this verse, I'm wondering if you can explain a few things? I assume that the brackets around "know me" indicate an addition to the original for clarification purposes. The Noble Quran seems to be full of these kinds of additions. Since "serve" and "worship", although related, are not exactly the same ..... is there some particular difficulty finding the right English term/terms for the Arabic words in the original message? Are you familiar enough with the original Arabic language to explain, even if it requires a paragraph, what that original word means in English? If not, please do not speculate. In that case perhaps you can recommend a way for me to pursue this (short of learning Arabic myself Smile).
 
Joe
 
Hi Joe,
thanks for asking your questions, they are of great value.
First I must say I do not know Arabic language, I rely on traslations and so on. I do read Arabic though and know deeper meanings of some words.
To answer your question about 'worship' and 'service' my understanding is that in Islam serving God is Worship. Every act of a believer done according to the way God wants us to is serving God, and is part of worshipping Him.
So in Islam the act of worship is not limited to praying or the rituals at certain times rather it never ceases in a believers life span. 
For that we say that Islam is not just someting between "me and God"
its between "me God and everyting else that surround or affect me"
Also, since Islam is a way of life, an individual's every act is regarded as serving God, thus part of the worship.
 
I hope someone who know Arabic and have knowledge of what you ask will soon respond.
 
peace,
 
Hasan
 
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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apel View Drop Down
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Hi Apel,
thnaks for your reply and kind words. I look upto the direct guidance sent by God for our times, the Quran.
One of my primary understanding from the Quran is that its the Almighty that knows and decides who pass, who fails, and who excedes. I , for myself has not the capacity to choose where I end up, of course we all would like and hope and sometimes assume based on our own generated assumptions that we have already achieved the salvation, something only God can decide.
I also believe that it is only through God's Mercy and Forgiveness through which one can hope to achieve salvation.  It is God's love for us that He bestowed upon humanity by giving us a chance and by providing us the guidance.
As long as we don't intend or/and surrender to satan, who constantly brings suggestions to our inner person thus not committing wilfull transgressions against what God has commanded us, and not fall short in our EFFORT to obey Him by fulfilling our obligations to the best effort, God has promised us forgiveness and a great reward in the herafter.
One thing I think is important enough to add here is that God, thorugh Quran and through previous scriptures has told mankind, that He is forgiving and may forgive any sin but will not forgive the gravest sin of all, the worship directed to anyone other than Him, who is One and Only to be woreshipped.
 
Hasan
 
 

Salam,

It is the best way to look upto Qur�an, the direct guidance of Allah. I agree with this but in order to explain what is in my mind let me make an anology. To prepare for an exam you several choices/needs.

1.    Attending class and to memorize

2.    Attending class and to learn

3.    Attending class and to understand

OR

4.    Cheating

Since we are attending classes, we hopefully deserve salvation. Even if we will not answer any of the questions, even if we give the blank paper, we still pass the exam because attending classess has a still meanning in this examination and not to fail will be just the Qanaat of Allah for us. Alhamdulillah. However, there should be something more if we attend all the classes. I mean we should contribute something too by ourselves as human beings. We are still expected to write down something and give some answers to the questions in other words value addition is expected from us because we are clever creatures who have a mind. Now, in the exam, if we prepare to exam by memorizing, we can just reply the questions of what we memorized. And, if we prepare to exam by learnning, we can catch the logic and we can solve the questions of what we dont know the answers exactly too beside what we know. However, when you understand, you can get bonus questions to answer too.

The fail or pass depends on the situation where we are in, too. If you are rich and you dont make charity, this might be a fail in terms of religion. But, if you are poor and do not make charity, this cannot be a fail. So I think value addition is important. And, for each additional value, there is always value additon tax. The VAT of memorizing the life might be different from VAT of learnning or Understanding.. And people realise that VAT during or after the exam. Thats why, the Imaan/faith gets fluctuating/rise or fall so there can be a deviation since they learn they pay that tax. This deviation means a person goes out of from his/her way but still  on the same direction just there is happened a space between the person and his/her path. I wonder how that person can drive this car again to the his path. To read Qur�an to pray are right and ok but dont you think that we as clever creatures should do something too to get  the car to the right way again...

Apel  

 
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jusaskin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

[ I do read Arabic though and know deeper meanings of some words.
 
"Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni" is the transliterated verse according to YaQuB website. Since I don't know Arabic, but would like to examine the words a bit closer, would you explain the last word, if that is the correct term for "liyaAAbudooni"?
 
I understand that classical Arabic is a bit different than modern standard Arabic. Which do you read, or do you read both? Can you tell if the above transliteration is SA or MSA?
 
Something I recently read about Muslims reciting prayers rather startled me ..... that all Muslims must pray in the classical Arabic language. Is that true?
joe
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nothing View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

"Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni" is the transliterated verse according to YaQuB website. Since I don't know Arabic, but would like to examine the words a bit closer, would you explain the last word, if that is the correct term for "liyaAAbudooni"?
 
But in your OP you specifically mention "mankind". Is Jinn included here also?
 
Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

Can someone tell me if the Quran clearly, and I would emphasize the word "clearly", explains why Allah created mankind?


Edited by nothing - 03 December 2008 at 2:10pm
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honeto View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

[ I do read Arabic though and know deeper meanings of some words.
 
"Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni" is the transliterated verse according to YaQuB website. Since I don't know Arabic, but would like to examine the words a bit closer, would you explain the last word, if that is the correct term for "liyaAAbudooni"?
 
I understand that classical Arabic is a bit different than modern standard Arabic. Which do you read, or do you read both? Can you tell if the above transliteration is SA or MSA?
 
Something I recently read about Muslims reciting prayers rather startled me ..... that all Muslims must pray in the classical Arabic language. Is that true?
 
Joe,
I just want to remind you that I do read Arabic Quran, but do not know Arabic. Muslims like myself who are none Arabs do learn to read the Quran, and the Quranic Arabic regardless of what our language is. This is mainly for the purpose of Qir'ah or recitation during the daily five Salath and for Quranic recitations for suplications etc. Yes the Quran is recited in what is called Quranic Arabic, the original language of the Quran. We are taught how to read the Quran by a Qari, but we actually were never taught the Arabic language. We were taught what a verse or ayah means in our own language.
 
Now as far as your question regarding the last word in 51:56  ( لِيَعْبُدُونِ): I would like someone who is expert in Quranic Arabic to complete and correct my answer if so. In my understanding the word can be translated and understood in context of the verse as, " for obdience, for service, and for worship"
 
Hasan
 
 
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Originally posted by nothing nothing wrote:

But in your OP you specifically mention "mankind". Is Jinn included here also? 
 
I was thinking about the human race when I used the term "mankind". Does your notion of mankind include the Jinn? If so, and you wish to give a response to the question, please include them.
joe
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

 We are taught how to read the Quran by a Qari, but we actually were never taught the Arabic language. We were taught what a verse or ayah means in our own language.
 
This will be off the subject a bit, but I'd like to follow up on this if I may. Your native language is not Arabic, but you learn from a translator how to identify, and I assume pronounce, the Arabic words of the Quran, the meaning of each being interpreted into your own language? I get the picture of someone speaking in one language (Arabic), but understanding in another (your native language). Is this method commanded in the Quran?
 
If I'm understanding the process, it recalls my youthful days as an American Catholic. We would participate in a religious service called "mass" which was spoken in Latin. We would be taught what the "sounds" meant but never learned the Latin language itself, only the certain words that were spoken at mass. Even though we said the Latin words, we would understand what was being said through our understanding of the English transation of those words. Is that about what you are doing with the Quran?
 
joe
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nothing View Drop Down
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Points: 416 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nothing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2008 at 4:24am
Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

Originally posted by nothing nothing wrote:

But in your OP you specifically mention "mankind". Is Jinn included here also? 
 
I was thinking about the human race when I used the term "mankind". Does your notion of mankind include the Jinn? If so, and you wish to give a response to the question, please include them.
 
Mankind is always understood as human race, and that is the way I undertand it.
 
Jinn today in my understanding is as inseperable beings, although in general they are being understood as seperate beings occupying different space. Also, it is generally understood that Jinns were already exist prior the human existance.
 
Depend on the way each individual understanding here. 
 
If a person believe that Jinn were exist before humans therefore pooling the Jinn in this topic seems off the mark - because Jinn is not part of the plan in this term.
 
But maybe it is already stated in here indirectly?
 
And when thy Lord said unto the angels:
Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth,
they said:
Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee?
He said:
Surely I know that which ye know not. (2:30)
 
 
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