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Topic ClosedMaulana Maududi and Dr. Israr Ahmad
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Points: 1642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2008 at 7:13pm
 
  You are right. The Jama'at got divided in 1947. Those in India could not work becuase they did not believe in secularism. The Indian constitution supports nationalism, secularism and democracy. Unless the Indian Jama'at went for secularism, they could not work.
 
 If they opted for secularism then it meant that their leader Maudoodi sahib was teaching wrong things. So they got stuck and could not make a decision. Without decision there was no progress.
 
 One important learned (outspoken) man of India (may be controversial person but he seemed to be an ex Jama'at Islami man, Abdul Waheed Khan) remarked a few years ago about Jama'at Islami. That is what he said what I have told above. In addition he remarked about the Jama'at Islami of Pakistan that is finished.  It has only only ****** value. I forget the actual word. If I remember it, I will write it. It was a bad word. That meant, it was a Jama'at which could only raise slogans and disturb the peace and make false claims.
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Points: 1642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2008 at 5:53pm
 I just remembered the word used by A. Waheed Khan about the Pakistan Jama'at Islami. He said that it was nothing. It had only Nuisense value. The word used was Nuisense.

Edited by minuteman - 23 June 2008 at 5:54pm
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gappub View Drop Down
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Points: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2008 at 2:14am
I like these remarks.

I see it as a very true definition.
Last night i was watching Yasir Fazaga on peace TV. He was talking about condemning people on their actions. His point of view was that we should not condemn people on their wrong actions rather we should educate them. If a person is indulged into a wrong habit, he needs a help and path of return, not mere condemnation.

while watching him, I remembered jamee'at (student cell of Jamaat in pakistan) the way they are behaving on new year nights. harrasing people on streets,  breaking car windows outside of hotals and clubs, where they assume that drinking is going on etc. They do it under umbrella of "Amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munker"

I am sure that to act under this umbrella, one has to be trust worthy and people should accept their deeds and actions as a noble cause.
But people do not want to buy these actions as noble rather it is really considered as "nuisane".

I feel that it is mostly due to dirty politics.
They do not even accept a fair politics. Few months ago, Imran Khan wanted to do a student convention in punjab university. He was literally beaten and thrown out of university. Just because Jamai'at  can not afford to take away their student power based on words. :)
Though Qazi later apologized but it was too late.

I have seen the politics of schools and colleges. this is a worst that any political party can offer to a student. unfortunatly Jamaat is also indulged into it. sorry, rather it is their life line.

Thousands of students lost carriers. hundreds lost lives.
what for ?

So that Jamaat can get 10 seats in the parliment !
Is it serving Islam ?



Please forgive me and correct me  if i wrote anything wrong.
May Allah forgive us all.

JazakAllah.
Fee amaan Allah.
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UmerSultan View Drop Down
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Points: 6 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2008 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by gappub gappub wrote:



I think that Jamaat should immediately leave its ties with current politics and should indulge itself in the process of change. Change towards Islamic system.



If Jamaat would leave the system who would preserve the little Islam in the gay political system of Pakistan. Brother you simply forgot that it was JI and IJT that gave their lives and Mawlana Mawdudi who accepted Death sentence from the government of Islamic Republic of Pakistan for declaring Qadiyanis Non Muslims and Demanding them as being declared as a Non Muslim in Pakistan. Today still IJT is the only organization that is working tirelessly to educate and expose Qadiani movement to the secular Muslims of Pakistan. Khatm-e-Nubuwwat just wants to take the credit for all the achievement little do they give creadit to IJT Students who gave killed by Qadianis and due to which the Nation wide movement was started.

Do you think everything will get normal? Do you think that one day someone on that PM's seat will decide to implement Islamic system becoz some groups like Hizb Tahrer and Nizam-e-Islami demands Islam???

Until and unless we go ourselves and do the janitorial work, nothin will get clean. Our masses are ignorant and are materialistic. Moreover they have allegiances to everyone but except to Allah and His Prophet. You think that Islamic government will come like that. What some Angels are going to do it!

There are only 2 possible ways of Bringing a Revolution, any revolution.
1] Take Arms and revolt [French Revolution/ Iranian Revolution/ Algiers Revolution]

2] Be Peaceful and work in the government and Change the country [South Asian Revolution, Civil Rights Movement's Revolution and Gandhi's and Jinnah's Revolution]

The First one only possible when there is no hope left. When things are totally corrupt. Pakistan is not in that phase. If God Forbids it enters then any one take arms and can lead the nation (if the masses willingly accept leadership).

The second one is when there is a system in place and foreign threats are being faces. When People have a land where they are free and Pakistan is in this stage. Its a second stage after Independence. All governments go through this phase. America did, Great Britain did, France did after French revolution.

Jamaat is doing what no other organization is capable of doing. And it is better for them to stick in the political system. Otherwise JUI and JUP and other Maulana organizations are going to mess Pakistan up. Streets of Pakistan will be full with blood becoz fof sectarian violence.





Edited by UmerSultan - 24 June 2008 at 6:25pm
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gappub View Drop Down
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Points: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2008 at 3:05am
as salaam'o alikum.


This is exactly anyone will listen from most supporters of JI.
I accept everything you just said. (with disagreement on 2 possible ways of bringing Islam)

You forgot to mention the only way of bringing Islam i.e. Way of Allah & Mohammad (pbuh)
and it is not a bloody revolution neither it is a compromise with current systems.
Life of prophet will give you all what you need to do in bringing Islam as a system
Unfortunatly, we always forget to mention the way of prophet (pbuh)

If you will insist on only said 2 systems then i must say that you are wrong.


My friend, please think on a little broader scale.

You should accept some of these basic facts.
*. democracy is rule of people. (People can make any rules/law they want in the assembly)
*. Islam is an eternal law by Allah. no human can change a bit of law just to satisfy needs of time.

It means that democracy and Islam can not remain togather !
In order to bring Islamic system, Democracy has to crash down.

Instead of crashing down a democracy, JI is insisting that they will bring a rules of Allah by democracy.
How ? by getting votes from people ?
With efforts of last 60 years:
How many seat are with JI ? 6 seats.(and its not only JI. It is all MMA)
I dont know by what maths JI will every get 160 seats to bring a law of Quran.

Probably, NEVER !

Mr Maodoodi is a hero of Jamaat and alas, JI is now indulging in "hero worship"
He will be rewarded by Allah for his efforts but we need to look forward to realities
and find a right way of installing a law of Quran.

JI may have done lots of good things in past but what we have to see is present and future.
Can you tell me where do you see JI after 10 years ?
Based on its 60 years performance in parliments, i do not see any difference even after 20 years

Like any other party, JI is also begging in front of powers to please please give us democrecy because we want to play election election.


And, what sectarian violence you are talking about ?
do you mean Shia/Sunni ?

As you said
"If Jamaat would leave the system who would preserve the little Islam in the gay political system of Pakistan"

Islam does not require democracy for its preservation !

When we become a part of a system, our survival becomes dependent on that system.  JI has become dependent on a democracy and it can not afford to destroy this system therefore it is giving lame excuses in order to let this system survive.

JI will always support democracy. And will never let it crash.
JI has no other cause left except to get some seats in parliment. JI is a part of democrecy that is a system of Free Masons.
If democracy dies, JI dies.



System of Allah has to come. And it will come. No one can stop it.
But i do not see coming via democracy.



What ever i said by my own, i might be wrong.
please convince me.


Allah may forgive our mistakes and sins.
InshaAllah


May Allah bless us all.
Allah hafiz



Edited by gappub - 28 June 2008 at 7:28am
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Points: 1642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2008 at 12:10am
 
 Dr. Israr sahib has some peculiar way of establishing the Khilafat again. May be he himself understands it. According to Doctor sahib, all the Muslim nations should get together and decide to chose some one as a Khalifah. That is impossible.
 
 Real Khalifah is made by Allah. Khalifah could be a political head. But he must be a spiritual head first. Where shall the Muslims find such a person today? There was a very true news about the coming of the Masiha a.s. in Ummah to help the Ummah. That was described both in the books Bukhari and Muslim (Agreed Hadith). Even Maudoodi sahib also believed in that. And he had described the coming of the Isa a.s. and then Maudoodi sahib actually described a whole battlefield of opposing forces. He tried to arrange the forces of Dajjal and Isa a.s. and moved them around as he understood things.
 
 Maudoodi sahib also believed in the Mujaddids of the Ummah. He also believed that Imam Mahdi will come. But he said that the Imam Mahdi will be a top class (modern) political leader. And the Imam Mahdi will not know that he was the Imam Mahdi. After his death, the people will come to know that He was the Imam Mahdi for the Ummah.
 
 Such things are written in the books. Previously, when the worldly Khilafat (of the Turks) was finished in about 1924 A.D. the muslims of India had started a movement to revive the Khilafat of Turkey. They had chosen Junab Gandhi sahib as the head of the movement to restore Khilafat. But the movement failed very quickly because the British had finished that Khilafat in Turkey and the british did not want the revival of Khialaft at all.
 
 Also the Turks acting on the orders of Kamal Ata Turk, were the part in ending the Khilafat. They did not want Khialafat. So the movement fizzled out. Maudoodi sahib spent his life trying to establish a Government by Allah ( Hakoomat e Ilahiyya). But he failed to do it. He did not understand the basic things clearly and opposed the creation of Pakistan. So he became unpopular in Pakistan. His movement could not make any headway in India or Pakistan.


Edited by minuteman - 05 July 2008 at 12:16am
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gappub View Drop Down
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Points: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2008 at 11:41pm

How could Mr. Maudoodi believed that Imam mahdi will not know that he is Imam mahdi ?
If he will not know that he is Mehdi then he should also not know that who is dajjal ? and who is Isa ?

If this is how Mr. Maudoodi undertood Imam Mehdi then i doubt....

Also what is a definition of (Top class modern political leader) ?


I found some of Ahadith regarding Imam mehdi.
http://www.irshad.org/islam/prophecy/mahdi.htm



Regards
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Points: 1642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2008 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by gappub gappub wrote:


How could Mr. Maudoodi believed that Imam mahdi will not know that he is Imam mahdi ?
If he will not know that he is Mehdi then he should also not know that who is dajjal ? and who is Isa ?

If this is how Mr. Maudoodi undertood Imam Mehdi then i doubt....

Also what is a definition of (Top class modern political leader) ?

I found some of Ahadith regarding Imam mehdi.
http://www.irshad.org/islam/prophecy/mahdi.htm

Regards


 
 You are right. If Imam mahdi did not know about himself then how he could go to fught the Dajjal. But there is another point too.
 
 There is a Hadith, The prophet said  that when Imam Mahdi comes, the muslims should support him and give him my Salaam.
 
 Now if Imam Mahdi did not know about himself that he was the Mahdi,  and he did not tell any one that he is the Imam al Mahdi then how could people follow him and support him? Maudoodi sahib siad that people will come to know about Mahdi after his death, by his good works that he was the Mahdi.
 
 It is a strange belief, not seems to be right.
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