The essence of disbelief |
Post Reply | Page <12345 7> |
Author | |
Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think Sign Reader gave you the answer you personally wanted to see. Each individual is different and what drives one may not drive another. Perhaps some of these converts are playing to what the Western audience wants to hear and perhaps not. There are those making money and those who live in obscurity.
I know an ex- Muslim who converted, he said that Islam was just too hard. He wanted to drink and have girlfriends and be able to do what he wanted when he wanted and still have the comfort of knowing he was "saved".
If you really want to know why Wafa Sultan left Islam and became such a vitriolic opponent, why not e-mail Wafa Sultan and ask her.
BTW: The KKK actually started as a religious group. Their roots are in Christianity: the burning crosses, white is righteous, black denotes evil, etc... so the comparison is valid. Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 19 September 2008 at 1:21pm |
|
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
|
Gulliver
Senior Member Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hello Israfil. I have no idea who this woman is you are all speaking about. Don't read me wrong. I am not 'laughing' at the seriousness in any of this.
It's just that sense of 'getting to know' someone, even through this internet. It was meeant in a humorous way to yourself. Not any kind of judgement on this woman or what she might have done, or any of your serious comments on that behaviour.
I was telling a friend of mine about this place today. He is well read on many things, and I said he'd enjoy some of you. He is very disillusioned with 'clericalism' in the Catholic Church. That whole thing that seems to be more about empowering 'clerics' than the whole family of God - spritually. We are all gifted in one way or another, and should all be encouraged to use and share those gifts in the service of each other. I must tell him to register some time and let him decide for himself what he might like to contribute to. Many good people everywhere and maybe we all need to share what we have in common and help each other know our 'purpose in life'. We were talking today about young people. The pressures they are under and temptations to drink, drugs, sex and everything else.
There is a line in the Prophet Hosea of the OT. Only one I know. "My people perish for lack of knowledge." As true today as it was then.
I was telling him how Muslims call each other brother and sister, and seem to genuinely try and support each other. When I met my friend six months ago. First time I went to the mosque with him. There were others there from various parts of the world. Mostly Africa. Some beautiful souls, honest to God. They didn't have much - but what they had they shared. There was one man there who'd obviously been badly hurt in some kind of bomb incident. Only one foot. To see that man walk, and talk, and the smile on his face and light in his eyes was something to behold. True humility is like a lamp in the soul and he had it. I wonder if that is what it's really all about - trying to 'serve' each other - loving and supporting each other as we are able. No rocket science. I know it all seems a tad naieve and idealistic perhaps. But that little community is what it should be about. And I've seen it too in other 'religions'. What stops them all just coming together. Hmmmmmmmmmm. I don't think I'll even try to go there.
God bless
|
|
minuteman
Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
S*R had equated Qadiyanis with Wafa Sultan and that fellow Warraq. I cannot believe it. Wafa has disowned and attacked the good things of Islam, say the Quran etc. Qadiyanis do not do that. Wafa has said good bye to Islam and has blamed Islam. I doubt if Qadiyanis have done such thing. Also to put Qadiyanis (Ahmadis) in the same chapter as Salman Rushie could not be true.
Can any one explain the beliefs of the Qadiyanis by personal knowledge? Then we can assess their relation with Islam. It is well known that there was much ignorance in India (Muslims) when Qadiyanis emerged. There was hatred all around and infighting amongst sects. At the same time hatred for the English rulers and an under cover cry for Jihad. That was about 120 years ago.
Does any one know about the real beliefs of the Qadiyanis who do not abuse the Quran and Islam. They may just be having a difefrence of opinion and a different approach to religion. ( I cannot find that post now where S*R had blamed the Qadiaynis) Edited by minuteman - 19 September 2008 at 3:11pm |
|
H3OO
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2008 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Minuteman i guess its upto Sign Reader to back up his statement with proves, to come with arguments that prove that qadianis are stemmed from brit Govt and that they abuse quran and and islam and only then we can research on those arguments and see what the real qadianis beliefs are. otherwise he is no different to the bigoted mullahs of today who are doing nothing but spreading hate towards other others, misconceptions against others.
Infact this is another reason, it is not the islam but the totally irrational interpretation of islam by these many not all scholars which makes people turn their beliefs, become frustrated, but still that no excuse as God has given everyone a mind/intellectual ability, so it is on them to use it before any conclusion. And most of the people turning to islam are doing research of their own, trying to read and understand the quran themselves and not through any scholar, if they were to listen to many islamic scholars, i dont think there will be many converters. as i said before in apostacy thread, had i believed in these scholars version of islam, i wouldve left islam a long way by now but Allah gave me the mind that everyones got which i used to get to real islamic teachings. Edited by H3OO - 20 September 2008 at 12:41am |
|
Sign*Reader
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Edited by Sign*Reader - 20 September 2008 at 1:48am |
|
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
|
|
H3OO
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2008 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
i'll only answer this here; what their views on this are that it were the muslims 1st who not only finished all their relations, transactions with them, but muslims also find it bad to eat with them, bad mouthed their prophet and khalifa, called them to have stemmed from the Brit govt or a plan of the jews, prosecuted them if they were found praying in any muslim mosque, or if they called themselves muslims, or if they propagated the islamic teachings openly or used the word islam with them, etc, so their response is pretty much. natural. inorder not to hijack this thread, the issue related to seal of prophet and prophet after Hazrat Muhammad [pbuh] is tackled in the following thread (from ahmedis point of view) Seal of prophets - Khataman Nabiyyeen http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13211&PN=1 [/QUOTE] Edited by H3OO - 20 September 2008 at 5:04am |
|
Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Gulliver
Groupie "What stops them all just coming together."
Faith is complex. Having faith in a metaphysical being such as Allah, Brahman or whatever you call the beyond is beyond the objective explanation of any science, that is why faith cannot be proven or disproven. Faith is powerful. It is something which we hold on to in times of need, but equally, disbelief too is powerful and complex and can be something we hold on to as well. From a sociological standpoint I think there are a series of events that happen that lead up to why a person disbelieves.
I think what Sign Reader pointed out in part was key as to identify factors that lead up to a persons disbelief. True, there are many who convert, however a percentage of that ufortunately are vulnerable women (most primarily of Caucasian decent) who marry men from muslim countries who need visas. Some convert for sincere reasons, out of a desire to know God through the umbrella of Islam. Some convert because of a kind of cognitive dissonance (See Wafa Sultan).
|
|
Gulliver
Senior Member Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yep I see and understand and agree with what you say there Israfil.
Is 'cognitive dissonance' the diagnostic term for 'nuttiness' ;-) lol Kidding.
Interesting to look at why anyone holds onto disbelief.
How much of life we hold onto faith really only in, 'times of need'. Seems it can be a very positive life giving thing for sure, when it permeates the whole life - in 'times of plenty' too. Well kinda what I begin to realise again.
K
|
|
Post Reply | Page <12345 7> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |