The essence of disbelief |
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Also consider Wafa Sultan (another popular figure who outright criticizes Islam) was (or is) born sunni Muslim who criticized Muslims shortly after 9/11 and called them to accept "Jewish accomplishments." to me, this is nothing but anger in an individual and I want to know where this pain and anger come from. It surely isn't conjured spontaneously, nor does it just hit someone. I question the environment and other contributing factors that leads an individual to want to hate the thing they were raised in. It certainly isn't confusion on the persons part since, these individuals were Muslims later in their adult years. So I question what is it? What is the 'essence of their disbelief?' For instance I coincidentally came across this while researching on Wafa Sultan on Youtube as she said: "I have decided to fight Islam; please pay attention to my statement; to fight Islam, not the political Islam, not the militant Islam, not the radical Islam, not the Wahhabi Islam, but Islam itself...Islam has never been misunderstood, Islam is the problem....(Muslims) have to realize that they have only two choices: to change or to be crushed." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up3yuQDAWKQ
What is even so confusing is she still considers hereself a Muslim (I assume by culture and not spirituality) but does not believe in Islam. So again, through he obvious anger, hatred, and pain where did it all come from? How could she have seen it all differently? Edited by Israfil - 18 September 2008 at 10:19pm |
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abuayisha
Senior Member Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
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Her situation and the relative few like her are an aberration. The vast majorities do not abandon their faith � especially Muslims. Much the same as most people raised in difficult childhoods do not murder as adults. Certainly some segments of society will ask why did they murder, but most of us are perfectly satisfied that murders are imprisoned or put to death for their crime. To Wafa Sultan and her ilk we say: They desire to extinguish God's Light with their mouths. But God refuses to do other than perfect His Light, even though the unbelievers detest it. (Qur'an, 9: 32) |
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Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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"What is even so confusing is she still considers hereself a Muslim (I assume by culture and not spirituality) but does not believe in Islam. So again, through he obvious anger, hatred, and pain where did it all come from? How could she have seen it all differently?"
You could ask this question of any disenfranchised individual or group. Look at our own country, members of the KKK consider themselves true patriots and Americans, yet their beliefs and view of what American democracy should be have very little to do with reality. They have a skewered vision of what they think America should be and a hatred of what it truly is. Why? What has made them see things so differently from the rest of us and why are they so full of hatred, pain, and anger?
Why have so many individuals resorted to shooting sprees and mass killings in this country? We live in America, the land of freedom and opportunity. So what makes the belief system, the moral compass of some people so distorted that they feel the need to shoot 30 innocent people?
I think the real question you should ask is why are there so many reverts to Islam from other religions yet very few of them become hatemongers. Why is that? That those leaving Islam are filled with hatred and the need to destroy their former lives and those turning to Islam generally find peace and enlightenment.
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Sign*Reader
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
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Ibn Warraq is one of those thousands east Asian so called Muslims like Salman Rushdie who followed their masters / colonizers in state of mental immaturity to European lands and ended up losing their souls for few extra pieces of gold!
Most of the dirt poor migrants from the subcontinent who knew nothing but bondage for over a century were just awe struck with Europen standard of living as compared to their homeland! Some of them sold their souls to get a part of that glitter by doing all things unIslamic few joining the anti Islamic groups that were part of the British colonial system. They turned neocolonial after the WWII and any such character would be welcomed with open arms! Any wonder that most leaders of Muslim Part of the subcontinent are still subservient to the WHitehall and Whitehouse even after the passing of six decades of so called independence! And of course the Jewish groups working for Israel would assist anyone to publish any rubish against Islam in the European or American areas! Those who hung in there with their broken Islam are now finding their children or grand children getting radicalized! The best argument against the likes of Ibn Warraqs is why didn't other millions who went to whiteman's continent leave Islam? Cuz they didn't want to sell their souls for more bucks! The Brits did succeed in creating a new religion in India that is Qadianism or ruin Muslims economically but they couldn't take the love of Muhammad completely from their hearts, leaving an opening for come back instead of becoming a Xtian! I have heard few stories about who were Indian Xtians and migrated to England thinking they were going to their home country got a big shock of their lives with racial discrimination that set their head screwed on right finally! Edited by Sign*Reader - 19 September 2008 at 1:25am |
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Sign*Reader
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
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Shame on Wafa Sultan for getting Green Card on the Farm worker amnesty visa of 80s and that proves that she is classic opportunist, like all those illegals who are fighting for the illegal wars for the neocons for US green cards!
She sold her soul for Almighty Dollar! She is a Zionist agent plain and simple! She was Alwite who are not even Muslim to begin with! Read more about this wretched soul!
Edited by Sign*Reader - 19 September 2008 at 2:02am |
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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I think Sign Reader actually offered the best response!
"Most of the dirt poor migrants from the subcontinent who knew nothing but bondage for over a century were just awe struck with Europen standard of living as compared to their homeland! Some of them sold their souls to get a part of that glitter by doing all things unIslamic few joining the anti Islamic groups that were part of the British colonial system."
After all, these outspoken individuals were educated in a Western system. However this maybe part of the influence but more specifically how does one come to the decision to hate? For instance, Ibn Warraq grew up in a conservative Muslim community. He studied and memorized the Qur'an wholeheartedly (according to his biography). But perhaps this is all apart of the confusion within the individual himself.
As for Wafa Sultan I agree, she is a nut who sold herself for money. Her YouTube clippings show her ignorance. The fact that she justifies Israeli ethnic cleansing is appaling. She puts blame on innocent Palestinians because of who they are. It is ridiculous but surely in Wafa Sultan's case it must be more than: "Poverty. It drives people to sell their soul."
"What has made them see things so differently from the rest of us and why are they so full of hatred, pain, and anger?"
Easy question. they have been conditioned by their parents to have ethnocentric beliefs. They have been taught to hate and to be Xenophobic. They have been taught to hate minority groups as being enemies of this country and have been taught that their hatred stems from their ethnic inferiority thus promoting the "white supremacy." Most hate groups are not complex nor are their beliefs even as messed up as they seem. But individuals on the other hand can be complex because of their complex views concerning themselves in the world. It doesn't follow a social pattern as it does racist hate groups....
"Why have so many individuals resorted to shooting sprees and mass killings in this country? We live in America, the land of freedom and opportunity. So what makes the belief system, the moral compass of some people so distorted that they feel the need to shoot 30 innocent people?"
Could be a variety of reasons. Mental disorder, Alcoholism, childhood abuse.....the list is endless we don't know but can only prove their guilt or innocence in court but as far as psychoanalyzing them we as outsiders couldn't know.
"I think the real question you should ask is why are there so many reverts to Islam from other religions yet very few of them become hatemongers. Why is that? That those leaving Islam are filled with hatred and the need to destroy their former lives and those turning to Islam generally find peace and enlightenment. "
Well I'm not asking that. I focusing on the individual mind and their openness to reject relgion in its entirety and at the same time being an opponent of that former belief. |
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Gulliver
Senior Member Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
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"As for Wafa Sultan I agree, she is a nut who sold herself for money."
Israfil. I am in shock. I need a vet - sedation !!! LOL
Where is your compassion. You are going to burn in hell for all eternity.
I am kidding :-)
LOL
It's good to see people being 'honest' some times. The rest is mostly aspiration - for any of us, methinks.
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Gullive rif you look on YouTube or better yet, read some of her work it obviously apparent her logic is absent. She blantantly accuses the muslim world of not "assimilating" and calls the war between "civilization and barbarism." To me this superiority complex nis a consequence of succumbing to "white imperialism" and colonial thinking. when the Portugese and Dutch as well as Western powers were deciding to which part of Africa to take, one of the psychological methods they employed was convincing the indigenous people that it was "God's will they take the land" and that, their "barbaric ways" had to be punished.
Edited by Israfil - 19 September 2008 at 12:47pm |
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