The essence of disbelief |
Post Reply | Page <1 34567> |
Author | |
Sign*Reader
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Edited by Sign*Reader - 20 September 2008 at 1:48am |
|
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
|
|
H3OO
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2008 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Minuteman i guess its upto Sign Reader to back up his statement with proves, to come with arguments that prove that qadianis are stemmed from brit Govt and that they abuse quran and and islam and only then we can research on those arguments and see what the real qadianis beliefs are. otherwise he is no different to the bigoted mullahs of today who are doing nothing but spreading hate towards other others, misconceptions against others.
Infact this is another reason, it is not the islam but the totally irrational interpretation of islam by these many not all scholars which makes people turn their beliefs, become frustrated, but still that no excuse as God has given everyone a mind/intellectual ability, so it is on them to use it before any conclusion. And most of the people turning to islam are doing research of their own, trying to read and understand the quran themselves and not through any scholar, if they were to listen to many islamic scholars, i dont think there will be many converters. as i said before in apostacy thread, had i believed in these scholars version of islam, i wouldve left islam a long way by now but Allah gave me the mind that everyones got which i used to get to real islamic teachings. Edited by H3OO - 20 September 2008 at 12:41am |
|
minuteman
Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
S*R had equated Qadiyanis with Wafa Sultan and that fellow Warraq. I cannot believe it. Wafa has disowned and attacked the good things of Islam, say the Quran etc. Qadiyanis do not do that. Wafa has said good bye to Islam and has blamed Islam. I doubt if Qadiyanis have done such thing. Also to put Qadiyanis (Ahmadis) in the same chapter as Salman Rushie could not be true.
Can any one explain the beliefs of the Qadiyanis by personal knowledge? Then we can assess their relation with Islam. It is well known that there was much ignorance in India (Muslims) when Qadiyanis emerged. There was hatred all around and infighting amongst sects. At the same time hatred for the English rulers and an under cover cry for Jihad. That was about 120 years ago.
Does any one know about the real beliefs of the Qadiyanis who do not abuse the Quran and Islam. They may just be having a difefrence of opinion and a different approach to religion. ( I cannot find that post now where S*R had blamed the Qadiaynis) Edited by minuteman - 19 September 2008 at 3:11pm |
|
Gulliver
Senior Member Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hello Israfil. I have no idea who this woman is you are all speaking about. Don't read me wrong. I am not 'laughing' at the seriousness in any of this.
It's just that sense of 'getting to know' someone, even through this internet. It was meeant in a humorous way to yourself. Not any kind of judgement on this woman or what she might have done, or any of your serious comments on that behaviour.
I was telling a friend of mine about this place today. He is well read on many things, and I said he'd enjoy some of you. He is very disillusioned with 'clericalism' in the Catholic Church. That whole thing that seems to be more about empowering 'clerics' than the whole family of God - spritually. We are all gifted in one way or another, and should all be encouraged to use and share those gifts in the service of each other. I must tell him to register some time and let him decide for himself what he might like to contribute to. Many good people everywhere and maybe we all need to share what we have in common and help each other know our 'purpose in life'. We were talking today about young people. The pressures they are under and temptations to drink, drugs, sex and everything else.
There is a line in the Prophet Hosea of the OT. Only one I know. "My people perish for lack of knowledge." As true today as it was then.
I was telling him how Muslims call each other brother and sister, and seem to genuinely try and support each other. When I met my friend six months ago. First time I went to the mosque with him. There were others there from various parts of the world. Mostly Africa. Some beautiful souls, honest to God. They didn't have much - but what they had they shared. There was one man there who'd obviously been badly hurt in some kind of bomb incident. Only one foot. To see that man walk, and talk, and the smile on his face and light in his eyes was something to behold. True humility is like a lamp in the soul and he had it. I wonder if that is what it's really all about - trying to 'serve' each other - loving and supporting each other as we are able. No rocket science. I know it all seems a tad naieve and idealistic perhaps. But that little community is what it should be about. And I've seen it too in other 'religions'. What stops them all just coming together. Hmmmmmmmmmm. I don't think I'll even try to go there.
God bless
|
|
Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think Sign Reader gave you the answer you personally wanted to see. Each individual is different and what drives one may not drive another. Perhaps some of these converts are playing to what the Western audience wants to hear and perhaps not. There are those making money and those who live in obscurity.
I know an ex- Muslim who converted, he said that Islam was just too hard. He wanted to drink and have girlfriends and be able to do what he wanted when he wanted and still have the comfort of knowing he was "saved".
If you really want to know why Wafa Sultan left Islam and became such a vitriolic opponent, why not e-mail Wafa Sultan and ask her.
BTW: The KKK actually started as a religious group. Their roots are in Christianity: the burning crosses, white is righteous, black denotes evil, etc... so the comparison is valid. Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 19 September 2008 at 1:21pm |
|
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
|
Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Gullive rif you look on YouTube or better yet, read some of her work it obviously apparent her logic is absent. She blantantly accuses the muslim world of not "assimilating" and calls the war between "civilization and barbarism." To me this superiority complex nis a consequence of succumbing to "white imperialism" and colonial thinking. when the Portugese and Dutch as well as Western powers were deciding to which part of Africa to take, one of the psychological methods they employed was convincing the indigenous people that it was "God's will they take the land" and that, their "barbaric ways" had to be punished.
Edited by Israfil - 19 September 2008 at 12:47pm |
|
Gulliver
Senior Member Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
"As for Wafa Sultan I agree, she is a nut who sold herself for money."
Israfil. I am in shock. I need a vet - sedation !!! LOL
Where is your compassion. You are going to burn in hell for all eternity.
I am kidding :-)
LOL
It's good to see people being 'honest' some times. The rest is mostly aspiration - for any of us, methinks.
|
|
Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think Sign Reader actually offered the best response!
"Most of the dirt poor migrants from the subcontinent who knew nothing but bondage for over a century were just awe struck with Europen standard of living as compared to their homeland! Some of them sold their souls to get a part of that glitter by doing all things unIslamic few joining the anti Islamic groups that were part of the British colonial system."
After all, these outspoken individuals were educated in a Western system. However this maybe part of the influence but more specifically how does one come to the decision to hate? For instance, Ibn Warraq grew up in a conservative Muslim community. He studied and memorized the Qur'an wholeheartedly (according to his biography). But perhaps this is all apart of the confusion within the individual himself.
As for Wafa Sultan I agree, she is a nut who sold herself for money. Her YouTube clippings show her ignorance. The fact that she justifies Israeli ethnic cleansing is appaling. She puts blame on innocent Palestinians because of who they are. It is ridiculous but surely in Wafa Sultan's case it must be more than: "Poverty. It drives people to sell their soul."
"What has made them see things so differently from the rest of us and why are they so full of hatred, pain, and anger?"
Easy question. they have been conditioned by their parents to have ethnocentric beliefs. They have been taught to hate and to be Xenophobic. They have been taught to hate minority groups as being enemies of this country and have been taught that their hatred stems from their ethnic inferiority thus promoting the "white supremacy." Most hate groups are not complex nor are their beliefs even as messed up as they seem. But individuals on the other hand can be complex because of their complex views concerning themselves in the world. It doesn't follow a social pattern as it does racist hate groups....
"Why have so many individuals resorted to shooting sprees and mass killings in this country? We live in America, the land of freedom and opportunity. So what makes the belief system, the moral compass of some people so distorted that they feel the need to shoot 30 innocent people?"
Could be a variety of reasons. Mental disorder, Alcoholism, childhood abuse.....the list is endless we don't know but can only prove their guilt or innocence in court but as far as psychoanalyzing them we as outsiders couldn't know.
"I think the real question you should ask is why are there so many reverts to Islam from other religions yet very few of them become hatemongers. Why is that? That those leaving Islam are filled with hatred and the need to destroy their former lives and those turning to Islam generally find peace and enlightenment. "
Well I'm not asking that. I focusing on the individual mind and their openness to reject relgion in its entirety and at the same time being an opponent of that former belief. |
|
Post Reply | Page <1 34567> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |