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Umrah ?

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Gulliver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gulliver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2008 at 5:57am
 
But that would be coercion and that is forbidden in the Qu'ran.  "No compulsion in religion". I am not a polytheist. I am not a pagan and I am not an idolator. So your qu'ranic verse does not apply to me from what I see and understand of all three of those terms. Am I 'impure'. God alone knows that.
 
I was only asking. It's not a big deal. My friend asked if I'd go with him. I respect the religious laws of the place and won't go.
 
Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya,
an 8th Century Islamic Saint
from Iraq
 

...There is a story that Rabi`a was once on her way to Mecca. When she was half-way there she saw the Ka`ba coming to meet her and she said, "It is the Lord of the House Whom I need. What have I to do with the House? I need to meet with Him Who said: 'Whoso approaches Me by a span's length I will approach him by the length of a cubit.'  The Ka`ba which I see has no power over me. What does the Ka`ba bring to me?" ....

The 'intent' to make such a journey is what God looks at and holds to - if I did wish to go and forwhaver reasons were not allowed to do so. It was only a thought folks as I said - a consideration and thank you all, truly for the feedback. It may happen, it may not happen. Insh Allah.
 
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H3OO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H3OO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2008 at 9:32am
to my research i have not come across anything that stops nonmuslims from entering the mosques.

i heard this thing that once prophet (sa) allowed a  delegation of Christians to say their prayers of their own way in his mosque.

O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin (polytheists, pagans, idolators etc) are impure. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram after this year; and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you if He wills, out of His bounty. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (Surah At-Taubah 9: 28)

over here impurity doesnt mean physical but refers to spiritual impurity(
(Aqeeda, IMAN) . This only applies to those who dont believe in the oneness of God OR pray anyone except one God like hindu community.
 
Mosques are built entirely and solely for the worship of one God only
and one God alone, so if a nonmuslim say that he is there to worship that one God only he may pray the way he please but if he says that he is there to worship
jesus christ or any stone or fire or anyone else except one God, then sorry  there is no room for such as such is not permitted Allah.

This verse was also to stop the mushriks during the days of prophet(sa) from carrying out their unislamic traditions in the mosque while performing Haj. during those days the mushriks who were completely devoid of any sense used to bring their own Gods made of stone  to the mosques to perform Haj.







Edited by H3OO - 16 September 2008 at 9:41am
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Gulliver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gulliver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2008 at 10:08am

Thank you Ahsura. I an assure you that I always have do so seek and pray the One True God - All - the Transecent who created us all. I just feel ready to make the particular part of the declaration regarding Muhammad when I don't know enough about him. It'can very a sensitive area and I'd have to be true and clear in that so that I can make an/all claims in such truth. God, knowing me as God's knows me I feel would have the doors fot the place flung wide open.
 
Thank you again with the others here for all education and support
 
God be with you.
 
Kevin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2008 at 11:41am
Originally posted by Gulliver Gulliver wrote:

Thank you for all you help here :-)  "With money I'm sure you can buy your way in the most sacred of places. "
 
No, I am not one of those. Relatively I have more money than some. I have saved for a trip for a time and wished to make some kind of 'spiritual pilgrimage'. It does not have to be the Umrah or to Mekka or anywhere really. Just about a month away somewhere where I can pray more, be away 'from the world' for a time, and try, TRY and give fuller attention to God, seek to know what God's will might be. where the direction ahead lies. As far as I am concerned, it would be absolute hypocrisy and a 'blasphemy,' for want of a better word, to 'buy your way' in any 'sacred place'. It seems to me that so many of the 'great' 'religious leaders' made journeys 'into the desert,' where they 'meet with God'. From Moses onwards.
 
For me - that 'desert' is the heart. It's the source of all 'intent' and the place that must become truly 'holy'. But like all prophets - for me, being, at least nominally 'Christian' - I believe, it is good to get away to a physical place too if possible, for a time, where you can really look into your own heart and find the God you seek, or God speak to you. And sharing the experience in a place like that, where the people of the world - at least those of true faith, strip themselves of worldly things, and show solidarity in true faith, and humility before their God. I was going to go on a much needed 'holiday' - spend time wherever, doing whatever. But I don't want or need that, not really, not deep down. Some might say, 'nice that you have that option'. That's not it either. Just some place for a 'soul jihad' perhaps, away from the noise and distractions of the world for a time. Though I fully realise it is when we think we can be alone - that there are other 'noises and distractions' inside of us that can often shout louder than any 'noise' the world may throw our way.
 
It's just something I have been thinking about. My friend has waited a long time too, and we just seem to be seeking something the same at a deep, core spiritual level, that I wondered if God had not brought us together for this purpose too. God does work in mysterious ways, as we all know. That we come from different 'faiths' to share what we have in common, to teach each other and grow in understanding and faith, and love of the Creator is what is truly important - the way of peace - the way that does not lead to any human being hurting another in ANY way and use the 'name of God' as some excuse. That is the worst 'blasphemy' as far as I am concerned.
 
The latter part of the declaration is something I cannot make, not yet anyway, if ever. I don't know. It would be like paying to enter a sacred place for me to say such a thing, when I cannot honestly say it is what I truly believe at this time. It would be a lie and that would be no good to anyone. Jesus said, "take up your cross and come follow me." I realise Islam does not believe in the crucifixion. To me I see in the 'crucifixion' utter submission to the will of God - even to 'death, death on the cross'. And the 'cross is folly to the world'. The wordly man does not understand the meaning of true submission - complete submission, and perfect obedience to God's will in all things - even 'death' itself, as and when and how it comes. I just don't know. I am trying to learn. I submit my lack of knowing which is, well - infinite :-)  to God too when I pray, and in that there is less worrying about any of it. If God wills, it will happen.  A poster said how my friend had influenced me. We influence, teach best by examply I believe. "By their fruits you shall know them." My friend told me a week after we met and talked that he'd have sworn I was a true 'Muslim' if I were not a 'Christian'. I told him I did not know what I was, and was very reluctant to use 'labels' as they more often than not caused greater division between people. So, the journey continues :-)  Thank you all again so much and
 
God bless all of us - and may the Good Allah lead us all on the 'right path' to 'the Light' of 'Jannah'. :-)
 
 I will keep you posted folks :-)
 
 
 
 
 
That remark wasn't applied to you. I'm merely saying for those in the 5% of the world who pretty much own everything, if they wanted could probably buy their way into most sacred places (of course not all). From stories I've heard from those who have met the royal family and those who have been on Hajj I highly doubt this would be trouble. It's unfortunate that this is a relaity but its the way the world is sometimes I wish it wasn't like that. Spirituality (or beng close to God_) shouldn't require money. Frankly if it were up to me the House of God would be open to all (with certain limits of behavioral conduct of course).
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2008 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by Alwardah Alwardah wrote:

For once we cannot blame the Saudi government or their scholars.

O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin (polytheists, pagans, idolators etc) are impure. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram after this year; and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you if He wills, out of His bounty. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (Surah At-Taubah 9: 28)

This command of Allah�s has being in place since the 9th Hijrah not since the Saudi came into power.

The only solution is to accept Islam.

Peace

 
  This is a clear order that the Pagans should never enter the Haram Sharif. But would it apply to all non-Muslims en-masse? I hope not. To be on the better side, if there was any verse of the Quran which said that only Momineen can perform Hajj, that would settle the matter in favor of those who do not allow non-Muslims to goto Hajj.
 
 There is another problem about the word "Al Naas". What does it mean? Does it mean all mankind or those of the mankind who have accepted Islam. If it means those who have accepted Islam then the situation changes. If it means all mankind then the situation becomes reverse. Please concentrate on the word "Al Naas". Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2008 at 12:54pm
Gulliver,
 
I do say your self-honesty is quite the important part. And that Allah knows what is in there, as is for all of us.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Gulliver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gulliver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2008 at 1:51pm
I said about my Muslim friend to some of before, meeting him and how he influenced me. I told him about this place and how so many sent him the 'salam' greeting. He is having a difficult time in life at present, and it did his soul good to hear that today I believe. He sent this link for the Qu'ran in different languages, and asked me to post it here incase you did not have one. So I am posting it here. I am sure perhaps you have something like this already. But he asked as a favour and with good intent, and I am honouring that request. Someone might move to the most appropriate place as necessary.
 
God bless and thanks to all again.  Salam.
 
Thank you again Hafya, and if I seemed 'off' today with anyone - misreading and or misunderstanding, as I have done, I apologise. We Irish are too quick tempered ;-) You don't know what 'soul jihad' truly is till you've had to master an Irish temper.  LOL   ;-)

God bless us all.
 

http://www.alketab.com/

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Gulliver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gulliver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2008 at 1:53pm
Just as a matter of curiosity.  If I wanted to get a good, reliable, unbaised read on Muhammad, what are the recommendations ?
 
Thanks again.
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