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Suleyman View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 March 2003
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Points: 3324 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suleyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2005 at 11:53am

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh Brother Ahmed J,

Brother,absolutely u are on the wrong way of using ur words before knowing who u are talking with,whay is the issue?,how should be cared with the science of Shariat?..exct.....i don't know which Suleyman u are fighting with in ur brain;please beat it i don't care who is he?...take care...

059.010
YUSUFALI: And those who came after them say: "Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful."

 

 
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 March 2005
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2005 at 7:44am
Originally posted by Suleyman Suleyman wrote:

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh Brother Ahmed J,

Brother,absolutely u are on the wrong way of using ur words before knowing who u are talking with,whay is the issue?,how should be cared with the science of Shariat?..exct.....i don't know which Suleyman u are fighting with in ur brain;please beat it i don't care who is he?...take care...

059.010
YUSUFALI: And those who came after them say: "Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful."

My dear bro Suleyman,

Why do you think someone is fighting with you? This is extremely strange view that I never intended for. My remarks are of general nature against the down fall of Islam through ottoman empire. They have nothing personal here, not to an individual nor to an individual nation (e.g. Turkey etc). The similar traits of Muslim emperialism is historically known in other part of the Muslim world as well and not specific to Turkey alone, e.g. in the sub-continent where the Mughul emperors ruled.

On the more, all my comments on this forum, and not just to your originated threads, are with regard to sincere efforts to reflect my own thinking on the issue through some logic and not for the sake of dehumanization of others nor for any personal gains. I hope you will forgive me if you think I have done anything wrong to your posts, but rest assure that it wasn't my intended purpose. Allah knows the best.  
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Ali Zaki View Drop Down
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Points: 217 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ali Zaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2005 at 8:13am

Br. Suleyman and Br. AhmadJoyia,

Their is no restriction on living a comfortable (and even luxiourious) lifestyle as long as 1.) The money was acquired in a halal way and 2.) Islamic taxes are paid (the correct amount and on time). However, the reality is that it is unlikely that a person who is the "servent of the people" (i.e., The Caliph) would have time to acquire such wealth in a halal manner without depriving the Umma of their rights or usurping the rights of others (i.e., non-Muslims).

In fact, Br. AhmadJoyia, you are correct that their is much historical evidence that the rulers of Turkey (i.e., the Ottomans) were corrupt and unjust. However, the evidence presented (i.e., the picture) of a luxurious lifestyle is (in itself) not the problem, the problem is how these items were aquired (i.e., through oppression and injustice).

Salam
"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2005 at 8:24am

My bro Ali Zaki,

I have not argued upon the legality of the issue but compared the life style with that of our beloved Prophet Mohammad, only.
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Suleyman View Drop Down
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Points: 3324 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suleyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2005 at 10:54am
Ahmad J,u should come to Turkey...u don't know so much thing about Ottomans...while they were sitting in the big palaces there were fully composed hospitals for the birds in the sky,dogs on the streets...
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2005 at 11:47am

My Dear Bro Suleyman,

Thanks for your invitation and probably you are right about my knowledge as well. However, to observe the acts of real khilafa', one should rather prefer visiting other parts of the sultanate than merely the capitol. Isn't it?
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Suleyman View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 March 2003
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Points: 3324 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suleyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2005 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

My Dear Bro Suleyman,

Thanks for your invitation and probably you are right about my knowledge as well. However, to observe the acts of real khilafa', one should rather prefer visiting other parts of the sultanate than merely the capitol. Isn't it?

Brother,u have an assumption on putting me in an wrong place...ur words including figurative meanings,where do u know that i don't live in Capital?...Very interesting br.Ahmed...u are taking decisions without seeing any sign and any evidence;only with assumptions...

010.036
YUSUFALI: But most of them follow nothing but fancy: truly fancy can be of no avail against truth. Verily Allah is well aware of all that they do.

 

Capital:inside his figurative meanings  connecting with my thread,it means the life of the last prophet rather than the other examples,where does he know that i did visit...where did he take the decision that i support Ottomans instead of the life of the last prophet?...The Palace in the thread was belonging to the government,it was not an regular person's house...can we represent the soul of the government with an tent?....my last words..no more messages will come from me...i have no time loosing with the assumptions...
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2005 at 5:45am

My dear bro Suleyman, why are you getting so much annoyed on my simple and humble replies. For example once you alluded to my limited knowledge about ottoman empire etc and then invited me to Turkey and to see great marvelous things that had been done in Turkey during their rule, my simple answer is obviously they must had done much good work for the animals and not just the people living in that part of their sultanate. However, my point of view is little different and I don't consider such examples are enough. To observe real service to public done by them, irrespective of any race, colour or creed, one should go in the other part of their sultanate, i.e. outside the Turkey, and then make some impression about them. Observation about their work within their capital may not be a good indicator of their just rule. The palace you had shown is a classical example of their life style in which they were living (in the end of their rule). I hope this may remove any misconceptions about my word "capitol" used. Cheers!

 

 
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