Hatred within the Abrahamic faiths

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Israfil

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Topic: Hatred within the Abrahamic faiths
Posted: 07 July 2008 at 1:37pm

I'm sure any rational moderator who has taken the time to actually read some of the posts can understand that there is some underline hatred for people of other Abrahamic faiths. I myself, while reading this try to combat this mentality with the occasional clichesque speech of "we worship the same God" routine, but of course, with failure it doesn't work. Many times individuals here say "well I don't hate Jews I hate Zionist" of course we try to distinguish the fanatics among the Judaic world from those who are peace loving.

Indeed there are many Jews who wish to have peace and there are many Jews who side with Muslims on the political aspect of their beliefs, but essentially deep down they still feel like they belong there at least spiritually if not geographically. Similarly with christians I see Muslims constantly and constantly try to disprove a book most say they don't believe in or think its false. If disbelief in the biblical doctrine is apart of our theological faith then why try to argue against the bible with such vigor and fanaticism as we do? this leads me to believe that unconsciously we believe in some of what the bible says. So which is it? Is it black and white? Is it tainted and untainted? Or is some of the word tainted while other words remain?

It's difficult to dispel truth from falsity in such situations especially if, in the doctrines original language we cannot comprehend because of our own limited understanding of the language. Paradoxically when visitors here criticize the Qur'an our greatest argument is to point towards the qur'an original language, yet we don't give the same accord to the Bible. Why is that? Are we that biased that we cannot look at the Bible's original language? On this website alone more people seem to know more about the bible than do Judaism yet some of us call Judaism a false religion because the "Qur'an said so." Yet, in a personal challenge to everone here has anyone taken the time to read Mish'nah torah? or the Talmud or any Rabbinical source that is not on a Muslim biased source but an actual Jewish source?

Has anyone read any Aramaic-biblical text? Or the gnostic scriptures? My guess is no, yet if you go to the inter-faith section you'll find many threads on disputing christian claims which in my opinion are just disputes based off websites. I guess I'm wondering where the underline hatred is coming from because it is hatred and if not hatred it is a deep seated dislike for another religion. If you want proof just go to the inter-faith section which in my opinion is a joke.

Edited by Israfil - 07 July 2008 at 1:41pm

Hayfa

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Posted: 07 July 2008 at 2:05pm

Well.. i tend to find the inter-faith section to go round and around and around. Honestly not sure how far one can do inter-faith over the internet on a forum board myself.

I guess the question is are any of the Muslims listening? I think that if you are raised Muslim one's reaction is different. For me, my family and friends are of all different faiths.

I would not say it is dislike (though I am personally not fond of Evangelica Christians but that is personal) as much as it is not understanding how to create and sustain an inter-faith dialogue.

Somwtimes it is listening and hearing what people ar saying. That people have different faiths and find it central to their lives. Just as some Muslimns do. The people who do come, minus the ones who pop up and are out to attack Islam. Most people come in good will. And Israfil you are talking about building the bridges.

I agree that some people don't know how to effectively respond and communicate. The inter-faith section is alot about I post this sura or hadith and someone else pulls something from the Bible. And back and forth it goes.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi

mariyah

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Posted: 07 July 2008 at 7:27pm

Salaams:
I agree with you br Isafril, and have decided to stay away from the Interfaith section. I just wish they would stop overflowing into the other areas. I have found myself being "naughty" and since I come from an interfaith multicultural background I will just let them keep going at it and maybe they will go away and target someone else.
Thanks for being a support when all else fails LOL

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.

minuteman

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Posted: 07 July 2008 at 7:41pm

There should be no hatred at all. The message should be passed with love and then left at that. Whether one believes it or not is not any one's concern.

Also if every one will present the good things of their own faith and not present any bad things about the others faith, it could help to normalise the relations.

Also when some one tries to deny the truth of the others faith and tries to use some argument (attacking the other's faith) then it should be remembered that the same (weakness, fault) should not be found in his own faith. I give an example: WE Muslims believe that angel Gabriel revealed Quran ( passed messages) to Muhammad.

The christians say that it was not an angel but it was Satan or the devil and not the angel. But we see that angels have been active in bible NT visiting some people like Joseph the carpentar and others too.

There are problems such as these. The three religions from the one father (Abraham) i.e. Judaism, Christianity and Islam should work together in promoting their faith and spiritualism thus bringing people closer to God. There are many good things in all the three religions. This world needs some good lessons in peace and love in order to survive.

Edited by minuteman - 07 July 2008 at 7:44pm

believer

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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 6:17am

http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/

http://www.peshitta.org/

New Testament greek interlinear:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Nur_Ilahi

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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 7:38am

Just this afternoon, I was telling my non-Muslim colleague as to the reson we live. The reason we are here in this world is to find GOD. Most people in this world have some kind of religion that worship a God. In fact, the God that we worship is the same God, whether the worshipper is someone who lives in the middle of the Amazon, a Buddhist, a Christian, a Jew or a Muslim. There could only be ONE CREATOR for the whole universe. We breathe the same air, we drink the same water, we stand on the same earth, then there could only be ONE GOD. The destination of all religion is ONE - TO WORSHIP THIS ONE GOD.

However some religion worship directly to THIS SUPREME BEING, while some religion worship God thru a creation of His. GOD ALMIGHTY in His knowledge knew this and as a Mercy to Mankind, HE sent prophets and scriptures as a guide in finding Him. It is our responsibility no matter what religion we came from, to sift the truth from falsity. After all He created all of us equal. Adeenul 'Aql - religion is Intellect. God gave us brains or intellect to help us in finding the TRuth.

I find that in real life, people who honestly worship a God, are more peace loving than those who have no God. For me, Alhamdulillah, knowing the Truth is such great Joy that I want to share this Joy with the others.

As to the Truth in the Bible, I cannot deny that there are some. After all in the Bible there are words of God, words of a Prophet and words of a historian which makes up the bulk of this book. The words of God and the words of the Prophet that are similar in the Quran can be believed, while those which are not in the Quran should be rejected.

You mentioned about the Bible original language. I wonder whether we do have one that was originally given to Jesus who spoke Aramaic. And u also mentioned that some of us call Judaism a false religion. During the time of Muhammad, there were honest Jews who read the orignal Torah and in the end embraced Islam. However, can we find these kind of Jews in this present world?

As to Judaism, from what I understand they have two kinds of scriptures, the Torah and the Talmud. I have read some verses of the Talmud, and it saddens me that people can believe in some of the racist verses that is in this book. God is universal, He could not created some above the others.

Frankly speaking, yes I did have some hatred, but it is the hatred for the stubborness in refusing to face facts. Other than that, basically, I was just trying to follow Muhammad's advice - Convey from me, even if it is one sentence.

Salam.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.

Israfil

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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 11:02am

Before I say anything I thank ever individual for their response! I definitely encourage all of you to share your views. to be fair and just and if I may, allow me to address everyone individually with my own response:

Hayfa

"i tend to find the inter-faith section to go round and around and around. Honestly not sure how far one can do inter-faith over the internet on a forum board myself. "

I agree. having discourse over the internet is limiting when compared to a forum where everyone is physically present. We are not aware of one's emotions and facial expressions and the individuality that goes along with it.

"I guess the question is are any of the Muslims listening? I think that if you are raised Muslim one's reaction is different. For me, my family and friends are of all different faiths. "

This is another good point you raised Hayfa. We all come from different backgrounds respective to our own cultures. I believe if you are raised in a diverse family (e.g. family upbringing) you are perhaps more "liberal" than one who was raised ina predominant religious environment. This is not to say one is better than the other but when it comes to diverse viewpoints, a person in a "liberal" upbringing perhaps can be more understanding than one who has been raised in a purely religious environment.

"And Israfil you are talking about building the bridges. "

Exactly. In my years of studying the Abrahamic faiths and monotheistic faiths what I find central to all of them is the belief of ONE supreme entity. If I extend this outward central to most popular world religions is the spiritual connectivity, and our behavior in sustaining that spiritual connectivity whether its connection with the world, animals, nature, etc. It is uneffective to tell someone else they are wrong even if (in reality) they are. If I focus on the Muslims specifically some of us (I say us instead of them because I am apart of them and guilty of this as well) say Christians and Jews are wronf for such and such and that remains ineffective.

We make posts on why the Trinity is wrong (something I'm guilty of). this is ineffective. We make post on why Jesus is human and not God (something I'm guilty of). This is ineffective. These posts amount to telling someone they are wrong instead of having a dialogue. There is a difference in telling someone they are wrong and having a dialogue. Regardless if we posts a thousand Biblical verses that defend our views these people, the non-muslims will still be who they are. It is very difficult to convert someone simply by dissecting their faith and explaining how wrong it is.

"I agree that some people don't know how to effectively respond and communicate. The inter-faith section is alot about I post this sura or hadith and someone else pulls something from the Bible. And back and forth it goes."

Agreed. Since majority of us is not certified in explaining religious scholarly works and their meaning it is important that we don't overdo the massive copy-and-paste posting of Quranic verses and Bible verses. This is ineffective. Who wants to read 8 pages worth of material with no explanation? Many of my bretheren Muslims here are guilty of that. I remember printing out a response made by a brother here (whose name I won't reveal) adn it came out to 28 pages! with no interpretation of what the Hadiths mean. We cannot simply post Qur'an and Hadith and expect non-muslims to understand without an explanation otherwise there is no point in having them come here to discuss! This is why I state my opinions more than proseltyze with the Qur'an and if I do make a statement reagrding Islamic source I'd rather give an Islamic source I trust to that person than simply post a Quranic verse or Hadith and expect them to understand.

Mariyah

"I agree with you br Isafril, and have decided to stay away from the Interfaith section. I just wish they would stop overflowing into the other areas. I have found myself being "naughty" and since I come from an interfaith multicultural background I will just let them keep going at it and maybe they will go away and target someone else.
Thanks for being a support when all else fails "

No. Thank You and thank God the Creator! I will follow you and stay away myself even though it maybe hard. I mistakenly thought a harmless discussion on Angels would kind of balance things out there but it hasn't. I guess this thread is the result of my frustration on the redundancy of threads concerning Christian theology.

Minuteman

"There should be no hatred at all. The message should be passed with love and then left at that. Whether one believes it or not is not any one's concern."

This is theoretical. I agree that despite the difference of belifes it is nobody's concern but WE make it our concern because this is a religious website. People come here and express their views so we can't help make it our concern. Also, I agree that there shouldn't be hatred at all, but when we make comments about Jews and Christians what does that say about us?

"Also if every one will present the good things of their own faith and not present any bad things about the others faith, it could help to normalise the relations."

Again this is theoretical, which I agree, but not always realistic. If you look at the inter-faith section you'll see what I mean.

"Also when some one tries to deny the truth of the others faith and tries to use some argument (attacking the other's faith) then it should be remembered that the same (weakness, fault) should not be found in his own faith. I give an example: WE Muslims believe that angel Gabriel revealed Quran ( passed messages) to Muhammad."

Ok. But you must realize Muslims do this too! This is exactly my point. We say Christians are wrong by pointing to the Qur'an and Christians say we are wrong by pointing to the Bible. These arguments are ineffective because we are arguing from sources the the other doesn't believe in. we say Gabriel revealed the truth of Muhammad but minuteman, our idea of truth may not be agreed upon by others of different faiths. Everyone even if you tell them in a convincing way will not always accept our understanding of "truth." What we must do is understand where the other comes from and have discourse instead of telling them that they are wrong for not accepting our truth.

I agree.

Believer

Unfortunately your post was just links instead of an opinion. Your links are not helpful here.

Nur_Ilahi

I agree and disagree with this paragraph. I agree that most people on this planet has some sort of belief in an spiritual entity. I disagree that everyone believes its God. Most people on the planet believe in a singular entity be it God, YHVH, Ahzura Mazda, Allah, etc. But regarding your comment on Buddisht the original teachings of Sidhartha (Buddha) are atheistic in nature (because Buddha thought belief in a higher power was associated with "suffering" apart of his teachings in the Noble Path). Buddhist that have a spiritual faith are apart of the unorthodoxy that came after his death-similar to the schims in Islam after the prophet's death.

"I find that in real life, people who honestly worship a God, are more peace loving than those who have no God. For me, Alhamdulillah, knowing the Truth is such great Joy that I want to share this Joy with the others."

Well, this is your truth. I've come to find in my life that it is the opposite. I've experienced, through media, and other outlets fantical religionist bomb abortion clinics killing doctors, physicians, and innocent people. I've seen religionist bomb themselves killing themselves and others. I've seen religionist kill in the name of their god, both in contemporary times and historical-need I refer to the Middle Ages? Some of the Muslim dynasties in the middle were not always glorious. We have a dark past ourselves. We jhave been colonizers and oppressors ourselves. Of course, many of us are in denial but it is true. do any of you think the expansion of the Arabs from Arabia westward into Africa was all peaceful? Or the Osman dynasty was all glorious and pious?

"You mentioned about the Bible original language. I wonder whether we do have one that was originally given to Jesus who spoke Aramaic. And u also mentioned that some of us call Judaism a false religion. During the time of Muhammad, there were honest Jews who read the orignal Torah and in the end embraced Islam. However, can we find these kind of Jews in this present world?"

This is my point. It seems in the context of your statement, you call Jews "honest" when they read the Qur'an and eventually embrace Islam and question the existence of such Jews today. What about Jews who may not embrace Islam are they less honest? With respect to your comment on the bible and the original message given to Jesus we may not know whether the original message exists or not. When God in the Qur'an talks about giving Jesus the Injeel I believe this is metaphorical. The "word" is perhaps internal, a spiritual message a sort of metaphysical knowledge materialized on pieces of paper lost in time. What if Jesus didn't have anything or a book? What if its the central messages he gave to the Jews in his time that was lost and not an actual book? We don't know. Jews who read the Torah and follow it are honest. Jews who don't convert to Islam but respect humans and treat humans with dignioty are honest, and humane. In my opinion one doesn't need to be Muslim to be honest and worthy of God's blessings. This is revealed in the Qur'an. We need to de-emphasize our superiority over others because it is ineffective in communicating and having dialogue.

We have God's word yes, but so do the Jews, christians, Sikhs, Hindus (believe it or not they are a paradoxically a monotheistic faith if you study it) and many other worldly faiths.

Well, I commend you for at least being honest, but you OUGHT to not have hatred. The truth you have is something YOU believe in and cannot force others to believe as you do. If God wants to violate their freewill and make them believe as you do he would do so. Rather, focus on your own imperfections and gather yourself so that you come correct for God. This not only goes for you but myself included, as well as others here.

Edited by Israfil - 08 July 2008 at 11:04am

Hayfa

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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 2:00pm

Actually the more I think about it, we'd be better to come together doing community clean-ups of the environment. At least we can accomplish something while we get to know each other..

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi