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Jesus Christ was and is a Jehovah�s Witne
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robin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

 

Adam did not submit to God but rebelled by disobeying him and eating the fruit Jehovah told him not to:-

 
Thus he dies for his badness! 
 
Adam did not disobey God. His greatest sin was he FORGOT. Looking at his beautiful wife Eve, he forgot God's command.
 

Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

And to Adam he said: �Because you listened to your wife�s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, �You must not eat from it,� cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.�

 
Robin, this quotation from the Bible give a depiction of a God is so Wrathful, so Revengeful So unMerciful, So Cruel.
 
I cannot swallow that as I believe in God who is AR-RAHMAN -MOST COMPASSIONATE, AR-RAHEEM- MOST MERCIFUL, AL-GHAFUR-,MOST FORGIVING AND AT-TAWWAB - ACCEPTER OF REPENTENCE.
 
 When Adam and Eve realized that they have disobeyed God by eating the fruit they called:

"They said: 'Our Lord we have wronged ourselves souls. If You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers' " (Quran 7:23) 

And God accepts their plea:

".. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went Astray. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance." (Quran 20:121-122)

 

Allah told Adam that if HE eats the fruit from a certain tree he would die, so it was poison for him.

 
It was a warning, not to do things that would kill him (Adam), how can that be bad or wrong, would you not do it for you own child?
 
Adam did not listion so suffered form his OWN actions as God said he would, how can that be wrong?
 
God tried to stop him from doing bad, Adam did not listion to God, so how is God wrong when he tried to stop Adam doing things that would hurt himself?
 
If youer own child did things that you told him would bring pain, as you did not want your child to suffer, but he or she ignored what you said and did bad things behind your back how would you be wrong if you had done all in your power to stop it but, they took no note?
 
Your reasoning need to be looked at!
 
Because God allows badness does not make him the cause of it!


Edited by robin - 28 June 2008 at 9:54am
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Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

2. Is Jesus or the holy spirit a god? What about holy spirit, god or not?
IN HEAVEN JESUS IS A LESSER GOD.
 
so in a way He is still a God, just not the calibre of the Creator. This point of yours makes it that there is 2 Gods.
 
NO!  THE WORD GOD IN THE BIBLE CAN BE GENERIC IN SENCE REFFERING TO A POWERFUL SPIRIT BEING OR PERSON EXAMPLE MOSES:-
 

Exodus 4:16  "And he* must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you** will serve as God*** to him*."

*Aaron; **Moses; ***N.W.T. (ftn) "As God.� Heb., le��lo�him', pl.; Gr., the�on'; Lat., De'um."

 

Exodus 7:1   "Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: "See, I have made you God* to Pharaoh, and Aaron   your own brother will become your prophet.

*N.W.T. "(ftn.) �God.� Heb., �elo�him'; Gr., the�on'; Latin, De'um."

N.I.V. Study Bible. Comment on Ex 7:1 (and Ex 4:16).

*As God transmits his word through his prophets to his people, so Moses will transmit God's message through Aaron to pharaoh.  The prophet's task was to speak God's word on God's behalf.  He was God's "mouth" (4:15-16)."

 

 

Quote 3. Did Jesus die on the cross?
NO, ON A "STAKE" (UPRIGHT POLE).
 
On a stake upright?? And how did He stay up there on the stake.
 
NAILS AND A BLOCK UNDER HIS FEET
 
Quote 8. Did Jesus meet any of his arch enemies after getting up (rising)?
EXPLAINE PLEASE
 
I think the poster means, that did Jesus meet any of his enemies in heaven after rising up to heaven.
 
YES; HE OUSTED SATAN AND HIS DEOMNS FROM THERE; SEE REVELATION 12:7-9
Quote 10. When will he come back and what he wil do
HE RETURNED IN 1914 AS THE KING OF GOD'S HEAVENLY KINGDOM WHICH WILL SOON TAKE CONTROL OF THIS EARTH AND DESTROY SATAN'S SYSTEM OF THINGS
 
Jesus returned in 1914 ???
so the second coming has come and gone??
 
AND IS ONGOING


Edited by robin - 28 June 2008 at 9:39am
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Angel View Drop Down
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Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

2. Is Jesus or the holy spirit a god? What about holy spirit, god or not?
IN HEAVEN JESUS IS A LESSER GOD.
 
so in a way He is still a God, just not the calibre of the Creator. This point of yours makes it that there is 2 Gods.
 
Quote 3. Did Jesus die on the cross?
NO, ON A "STAKE" (UPRIGHT POLE).
 
On a stake upright?? And how did He stay up there on the stake.
 
Quote 8. Did Jesus meet any of his arch enemies after getting up (rising)?
EXPLAINE PLEASE
 
I think the poster means, that did Jesus meet any of his enemies in heaven after rising up to heaven.
 
Quote 10. When will he come back and what he wil do
HE RETURNED IN 1914 AS THE KING OF GOD'S HEAVENLY KINGDOM WHICH WILL SOON TAKE CONTROL OF THIS EARTH AND DESTROY SATAN'S SYSTEM OF THINGS
 
Jesus returned in 1914 ???
so the second coming has come and gone??


Edited by Angel - 28 June 2008 at 6:38am
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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myahya View Drop Down
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Robin :�Adam did not submit to God but rebelled by disobeying him and eating the fruit Jehovah told him not to�

This was not a so called rebel or disobedience. When Allah swt commanded Adam and his wife to avoid the tree, they actually obeyed (accepted it) without a doubt. After that Satan caused them to be out of the state they were in.

Quran (2:36) But Satan caused them to deflect from the state in which they were; and we said: Fall down, some of you are the enemies of others. There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision till a time.

However, this can not be categorized as committing a sin because at that time there was yet no religion according to which you can define a sin. A sin can only be defined associated with the religion which is revealed to human (on the earth) to be guided. My evidence to this is the verse after the above verse in Quran which shows the start point of religion revelation for human being after coming on earth:   

Quran (2:38) We said," Get down from it, all together! Yet, should any guidance come to you from Me, those who follow My guidance shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.

On the other hand, falling down to earth was not really because of Adam and Ave eating from the tree. Before that Allah swt had told the angels about it in earlier verses:

Quran (2:30) So when your Lord told the angels:" I am placing an overlord on earth", they said:" Will You place someone there who will corrupt it and shed blood, while we hymn Your praise and sanctify You?" He said:" I know something you do not know.

Therefore, there is no original sin



Edited by myahya - 28 June 2008 at 6:12am
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

 

Adam did not submit to God but rebelled by disobeying him and eating the fruit Jehovah told him not to:-

 
Thus he dies for his badness! 
 
Adam did not disobey God. His greatest sin was he FORGOT. Looking at his beautiful wife Eve, he forgot God's command.
 

Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

And to Adam he said: �Because you listened to your wife�s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, �You must not eat from it,� cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.�

 
Robin, this quotation from the Bible give a depiction of a God is so Wrathful, so Revengeful So unMerciful, So Cruel.
 
I cannot swallow that as I believe in God who is AR-RAHMAN -MOST COMPASSIONATE, AR-RAHEEM- MOST MERCIFUL, AL-GHAFUR-,MOST FORGIVING AND AT-TAWWAB - ACCEPTER OF REPENTENCE.
 
 When Adam and Eve realized that they have disobeyed God by eating the fruit they called:

"They said: 'Our Lord we have wronged ourselves souls. If You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers' " (Quran 7:23) 

And God accepts their plea:

".. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went Astray. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance." (Quran 20:121-122)

 


Edited by Nur_Ilahi - 28 June 2008 at 2:21am
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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1. Is trinity the truth?
NO!
 
2. Is Jesus or the holy spirit a god? What about holy spirit, god or not?
IN HEAVEN JESUS IS A LESSER GOD.
HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD'S POWER.
 
3. Did Jesus die on the cross?
NO, ON A "STAKE" (UPRIGHT POLE).
 
4. Did Jesus come back to life after death (called resurrection)?
YES.
 
5. Do the JW's believe in the original sin?
YES, IT WAS DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD. 
 
6. Did Jesus die and take away the sins of people (Atonement)?
YES, BY HIS BLOOD
 
7. Is it necessary to be baptised nowadays?
YES 
 
8. Did Jesus meet any of his arch enemies after getting up (rising)?
EXPLAINE PLEASE
 
9. Did he go bodily to heavens or only his soul went up?
HUMANS DO NOT HAVE SOULS THEY ARE SOULS
SOUL CAN MEAN LIFE.
JESUS WAS RAISED A SPIRIT BEING.
 
10. When will he come back and what he wil do?
HE RETURNED IN 1914 AS THE KING OF GOD'S HEAVENLY KINGDOM WHICH WILL SOON TAKE CONTROL OF THIS EARTH AND DESTROY SATAN'S SYSTEM OF THINGS
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Robin,
I agree with what you said.
In Islam we believe that for mankind there is only One true religion or way since the creation of Adam. And that is submission to the One and Only God, in practice that is Islam. Adam was a Muslim, and so were all of God's prophets sent in different times all over the world, like Noah, Moses, Abraham, David, Jesus and Mohammed (pbut).
Those of us who know the Creator through logic and knowledge and surrender to His will,  and follow the guidance sent by Him for our times are on the right path.  Those who deny the Judgement Day and deny the logic and knowledge once it has reached their ears, eyes, heart and mind have lost belief, and are lost. Their denial of the Truth will serve as a witness against themselves on the day of Judgement, when their eyes, ears, heart and mind will testify against themself. They will be the losers that Day, and what a loss that will be, a loss forever.
Hasan
 
 

Adam did not submit to God but rebelled by disobeying him and eating the fruit Jehovah told him not to:-

 

Genesis 2:16-17

And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: �From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.�

 

 

Genesis 3:11-12

From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten?� 12 And the man went on to say: �The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate.�

 

Genesis 3:17-19

And to Adam he said: �Because you listened to your wife�s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, �You must not eat from it,� cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.�

 
Thus he dies for his badness! 
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rami View Drop Down
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Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

I agree with robin Isa/Jesus was a witness of Jehovah/Yahweh/God/Allah [arabic form] i dont see much wrong with the post from an islamic point of view at all. It plainly states it in the Quran that Isa will be a witness against all those who called him God and so will his followers be witnesses for him on the day of judgment that he fulfilled his responsibilities and never claimed such a thing.

The muslim Ummah will be witness against other nations, this is nothing new, Rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] himself said something very similar to this John 17:6��I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word"". and the angels bore witness that he too had fulfilled his trust and responsibility, later on Allah said in the Quran "today i have perfected your religion".

robin you misquoted Isaiah 43:12 and made it sound as if Jesus was saying he was God the entire verse reads..."I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God". I also think you are over extending the meaning of some of the passages in the bible as  Jehovah/Yahweh/God/Allah will not call to witness for him those people who have not lived the life he chose for them. This would be the equivalent of calling a serial killer to witness for God against other serial killers and to tell them what they did was wrong, there is no moral high ground here and it would be clear hypocrisy.

Mariyah there is no need to be rude to Robin and suggest that she leaves the forum or they are not welcome here it isnt your place to say who is or isn't allowed to come to a public forum, if you can not entertain multiple conflicting ideas in your mind then quietly leave the discussion there is no shame in that.


Edited by rami - 25 June 2008 at 7:52pm
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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