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robin 
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 Topic: Jesus Christ was and is a Jehovah�s Witne
Posted: 06 August 2008 at 2:16am |
Greek word for name (onoma) in John 17: 6 & 26.
From - http://vines.mike-obrien.net/
Name (1onoma) Scripture Index for onoma
Is used (I) in general of the "name" by which a person or thing is called, e.g., Mr. 3:16,17, "(He) surnamed," lit., "(He added) the name;" Mr. 14:32, lit., "(of which) the name (was);" Lu. 1:63; Joh....
King James Version (KJV).
John 17:6 I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.
John 17:26 And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.�
New International Version (NIV).
John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."
The NIV is said to be one of the most popular Bibles in the world!
The NIV removes from the text of the Bible that Jesus made Gods NAME manifest or known!
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robin
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Posted: 09 July 2008 at 12:49am |
 mariyah wrote:
Do you have any copies of pre constantine scriptures? |
Or is it perhaps you are not listening.
Yes they can be had from most Bible societies.
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mariyah
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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 11:24am |
Evidently your reading comprehension is not up to par. I never said anything about Jesus being god. You are not really reading anything then, you are judging and retorting and spamming!
Jesus is a messenger of Allah. So was Mohammad. Alhamdullillah!
robin wrote:
mariyah wrote:
LOL
No offense, but this is a bit hard to swallow. Jesus was not a Christian such as a Jehovahs witness is. Can a man follow himself? Jesus was born in the Hebrew tribe of Judah and his mother according to your bible was of the Levite/Judah lineage. He is the promised Hebrew Messiah, the messenger to the descendants of Isaac.
Do you have any copies of pre constantine scriptures? |
He did not follow himself, he is not God, he taught others to follow Jehovah God! |
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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Angel
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Posted: 04 July 2008 at 9:12am |
| 3. Did Jesus die on the cross?
NO, ON A "STAKE" (UPRIGHT POLE).
That is another problem. Now we are entangled between a cross and a stake. What types of beliefs are these of the JW's. It means that Jesus died on the stake. So the JW's do not talk about any cross. Jesus was not on a cross. He was on a stake. Do you Robin believe that?/ please tell so that we can forget about the cross from now onward.
THE CROSS IS ANOTHER PAGAN IDEA ABSORBED INTO CHRISTIANITY.
JESUS DIES THE JEWISH WAY, ON A STAKE.
Actually it is not pagan nor asborbed into christianity, it was the way romans did captial punishment, by cruifying. Hence the image of Jesus on the cross.
The Romans did not Kill Jesus the Jews did! |
I know the history of the cross in various shapes and that it's pre Christianity. But you did not take note of what I said. The capital punishment that the romans carried out was cruification that was in the form of a cross give or take for perfection of a cross shape. That is why i said its not pagan nor absorb into christianity. The cross for Christianity came because Jesus died on a cross, hence the symbol for the religion, there are a few other meanings but i am not going to go through them it would just be a waste of time.
robin, don't forget that there were 2 other guys with Jesus. I suppose according by you those 2 men were killed by the Jews also or perhaps there were no others just Jesus himself.
| 10. When will he come back and what he wil do?
HE RETURNED IN 1914 AS THE KING OF GOD'S HEAVENLY KINGDOM WHICH WILL SOON TAKE CONTROL OF THIS EARTH AND DESTROY SATAN'S SYSTEM OF THINGS
Do you mean to say that jesus has returned to earth in 1914? Then where is he now please? I am only interested in knowing where is Jesus now?
NO!
HE WAS GIVEN HIS KINGSHIP IN 1914 IN HEAVEN.
JESUS IS NOW THE KING OF GOD�S KINGDOM IN HEAVEN AND WILL NEVER COME BACK TO THIS EARTH AGAIN!
So, no second coming ??
The second is now a past event it happend in 1914. |
I see.
Edited by Angel - 04 July 2008 at 9:15am
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 ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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myahya
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Posted: 04 July 2008 at 5:10am |
Robin: Are humans like god?
"Let us make man in our image" only LIKE him!
Human can be like
God in different degrees. Let me explain my belief in this way: A human can be
like Him in His attributions (by different ranges of number and level) but not
in His existence. What is the name �Allah�?
Allah swt = His existence +
ALL attributions together.
Allah swt has many names but the
other names (except Allah) are based on particular attributions. For instance,
one of His names is �The Creator� (Al-khalegh in Arabic). This name is based on the attribution
�creative� and so on but Allah is the collection of ALL His attributions in one
name. Now, a person may be like Allah (in his/her own level) in
some attributions more or less than the others and/or in more or less numbers
of attributions. Those who are chosen by Allah swt to guide people are the most
like Him still in different levels associated with their mission. I am not
going to discuss the difference in levels here, but Isa (as) is not the only
one, the absolute one and the last one. In terms of prophet-hood, there is one
individual except Isa (as) and after him (In Islam) who is chosen by Allah swt
and had mission and even is already introduced by Isa (as), who is Mohammad
(sawa).
Edited by myahya - 04 July 2008 at 8:53am
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robin
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Posted: 03 July 2008 at 3:09pm |
Angel wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Robin's post of 27 June, was a reply to my earlier post, all shown below:
In the end I thank you for taking the trouble to give answers to my ten questions as shown above in blue. I am learning something about the Jehova's Witnesses. Thanks. |
2. Is Jesus or the holy spirit a god? What about holy spirit, god or not?
IN HEAVEN JESUS IS A LESSER GOD.
HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD'S POWER.
That is not a clear reply to my question. It means that Jesus is a lesser god. That means you do not believe in Trinity but you believe in Duality (two gods). Also, you have not cleared the matter about holy ghost.
Holy ghost is God's power. But is it a god or not? Please tell.
JESUS IS A TOTAL SEPRATE PERSON FROM GOD ALMIGHTY WITH HIS OWN WILL!
HE IS LIKE GOD BECAUSE GOD TELLS HIM WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO DO IT AND HE DOES IT!
HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT GOD IT IS AN IMPERSONAL POWER FROM GOD. |
Are humans like god?
"Let us make man in our image" only LIKE him!
Psalms 82:1-8 "God is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One*; In the middle of the gods** he judges: "How long will YOU keep on judging with injustice And showing partiality to the wicked themselves? Be judges for the lowly one and the fatherless boy. To the afflicted one and the one of little means do justice. Provide escape for the lowly one and the poor one; Out of the hand of the wicked ones deliver [them]." They have not known, and they do not understand; In darkness they keep walking about; All the foundations of the earth are made to totter. "I myself have said, 'YOU are gods***, And all of YOU are sons of the Most High. . . ."
*N.W.T. (ftn) "Or, �God.� Heb., �El; LXXVg, �gods�; Sy, �angels.�"
**N.W.T. (ftn) "Or, �godlike ones.� Heb., �elo�him'; LXXVgc, �gods�; Sy, �angels�; T, �judges.�"
***N.W.T. (ftn) "Or, �godlike ones.� Heb., �elo�him'; Gr., the�oi'; Syr., da��la�hin; Lat., di'i; T, like angels.�
N.I.V. Study Bible. Comment on Ps 82:6.
"I said. Those who rule (or judge) do so by God's appointment (see 2:7 ; Isa 44:28) and thus they are his representatives- whether they acknowledge him or not (see Ex 9:16; Jer 27:6; Da 2:21; 4:17.32; 5:18; Jn 17:11; Ro 13:1). gods. See note on v. 1*. sons of. See note on v, 1, Most High. See note on Ge 14:19."
*"An early rabbinic interpretation (see Jn 10:35-35) understanding the "gods" (vv. 1,6) to be unjust rulers and judges in Israel, of whom there were many . . . ."
K.J.V. Companion Bible, Ps 82:1
**"gods Elohim: used of earthly judges as representing Him. Cp. Ex. 21.6; 22.8, 9, 28 (quoted in Acts 23.5.). Hence Moses is so spoken of (Ex. 7. 1). (it is used also of idols as representing even a false god.) See John 10. 34, 35."
"Verse 6. Ye are gods � Or, with the prefix of k ke, the particle of similitude, keelohim, �like God.� Ye are my representatives, and are clothed with my power and authority to dispense judgment and justice, therefore all of them are said to be children of the Most High."-Clarke's Commentary OT, Vol. 3 Job - Song of Solomon by Adam Clarke p.1084
Psalm 82:6
�I myself have said, �YOU are gods, And all of YOU are sons of the Most High.
If God can call humans �gods� by his own word and these are also �sons� and as it is there are many of them as it refers to them in the plural.
| 3. Did Jesus die on the cross?
NO, ON A "STAKE" (UPRIGHT POLE).
That is another problem. Now we are entangled between a cross and a stake. What types of beliefs are these of the JW's. It means that Jesus died on the stake. So the JW's do not talk about any cross. Jesus was not on a cross. He was on a stake. Do you Robin believe that?/ please tell so that we can forget about the cross from now onward.
THE CROSS IS ANOTHER PAGAN IDEA ABSORBED INTO CHRISTIANITY.
JESUS DIES THE JEWISH WAY, ON A STAKE. |
Actually it is not pagan nor asborbed into christianity, it was the way romans did captial punishment, by cruifying. Hence the image of Jesus on the cross.
The Romans did not Kill Jesus the Jews did!
The following is from various scholastic sources on the pre-Christian origin and use of the cross.
"Cross, a structure, usually an upright bearing a horizontal beam. The cross was common to most cultures from prehistoric times. It is used primarily as a religious symbol, and is the principal symbol of Christianity. The cross recalls the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and the redeeming benefits of his Passion and death. It is thus a sign both of Jesus Christ and of the faith of Christians. A crucifix is a representation of Christ on the cross. Before the Christian Era, crosses were used as religious or other symbols; a variation, the swastika, was marked on many early Christian tombs as a veiled symbol of the cross. In the 4th century, after Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity, the cross became popular in Christian art and funerary monuments. In the 20th century Roman Catholicism began emphasizing the use of crucifixes in liturgical settings. Protestant churches use the cross ornamentally and ceremonially to varying degrees. The crucifix is usually confined to private devotional use; making a sign of the cross can be an act of profession of faith, a prayer, a dedication, or a benediction. see also St. Andrew's Cross."- Excerpted from The Complete Reference Collection. Copyright � 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 The Learning Company
"One of the oldest amuletic signs in the world, perhaps even the oldest, is the CROSS , that is to say the figure which is made by two straight lines which bisect each other at right angles +. This is what in commonly understood by the word "cross," and not the single wooden pillar or pole to which malefactors condemned to death were tied, and which is spoken of by some writers as the crux simplex. It was at one time believed by many writers on ecclesiastical symbols, relics, etc., that the cross was entirely of Christian origin, but such is not the case, for it was in use among the pagan peoples of Eastern Asia and Europe many centuries before the death of Christ. That the pagan cross symbolised something quite different from that which the Christian cross commemorated hardly needs to be said. But judging by what we think we know symbolism of the pagan cross we are justified regarding it as a forerunner of the Christian cross. . . ."-'Amulets and Superstitions' by E.A. Wallis Budge p.336
"CROSS "The shape of the [two-beamed cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as a symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent, A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the crosspiece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ"-'An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words' (London, 1962), W.E. Vine, p.256
| 4. Did Jesus come back to life after death (called resurrection)?
YES.
That means he died at the stake and he got up or lived again after dying. So the JW's believe in the resurrection. Thanks for the info. A lesser god had died and then came back to life after two days,,,
WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH HE WAS TOTAL HUMAN.
WHEN HE WENT BACK INTO HEAVEN HE WAS GIVEN HIS SPIRIT FORM BACK, THUS GOD LIKE1 |
Are humans god like to.
Yes in that we can copy God's loving ways of doing things, he made us with that capasity, thus we can be like him.
| 10. When will he come back and what he wil do?
HE RETURNED IN 1914 AS THE KING OF GOD'S HEAVENLY KINGDOM WHICH WILL SOON TAKE CONTROL OF THIS EARTH AND DESTROY SATAN'S SYSTEM OF THINGS
Do you mean to say that jesus has returned to earth in 1914? Then where is he now please? I am only interested in knowing where is Jesus now?
NO!
HE WAS GIVEN HIS KINGSHIP IN 1914 IN HEAVEN.
JESUS IS NOW THE KING OF GOD�S KINGDOM IN HEAVEN AND WILL NEVER COME BACK TO THIS EARTH AGAIN! |
So, no second coming ??
The second is now a past event it happend in 1914.
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robin
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Posted: 03 July 2008 at 2:56pm |
Israfil wrote:
Robin:
The warning God gave Adam was his help to Adam, as you say Adam had free will, which he abused in that he ignored God and paid the price!
Adam's disobedience to God is not abuse of his freewill but quite the opposite. Obedience especially when we have options to either be obedient or not is a choice. Some would say, paradoxically, that to not exercise such (Freewill) would be to consciously abuse it! Although this may be contradictory in its own complexity (since to not act would also be a choice in itself thus exercising freewill) Adam didn't abuse his freedom (even though some of you moralist may be inclined to say otherwise) but exercised his freewill yet, made a poor "choice." Just wanted to clarify that point. |
Genesis 2:17
But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."
Human free will is limited with in the bounds set by God, go out of bounds and it is an abuse that leads to death as it is doing the will of Satan The Devil, thus Adam died!
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Israfil
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Posted: 03 July 2008 at 10:44am |
Robin:
The warning God gave Adam was his help to Adam, as you say Adam had free will, which he abused in that he ignored God and paid the price!
Adam's disobedience to God is not abuse of his freewill but quite the opposite. Obedience especially when we have options to either be obedient or not is a choice. Some would say, paradoxically, that to not exercise such (Freewill) would be to consciously abuse it! Although this may be contradictory in its own complexity (since to not act would also be a choice in itself thus exercising freewill) Adam didn't abuse his freedom (even though some of you moralist may be inclined to say otherwise) but exercised his freewill yet, made a poor "choice." Just wanted to clarify that point.
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