From where did the trinity teaching come?

AgnesDei wrote: She is called the Mother of God because she is the mother of Jesus who is the Son, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity.   GOD the father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are 3 ENTITIES which combine to form ONE GOD.  She was chosen by God to be the mother of Jesus.  It is written in the Gospel of Luke.  Yes, you are correct, Hasan, I am a devout Roman Catholic.  I respect all people who are trying in their heart to follow God to the best of their ability.  In the end, when this life is over......that is when we'll see who was on the correct path and who was misguided.   Perhaps there are several paths which lead to the same destination, my friend.   Patty

Edited by honeto - 06 April 2011 at 2:03pm

honeto wrote: Douggg wrote: honeto wrote: Dear Hi Hasan, before there was anything created, what existed other than God?   Dear Doug, let AgnesDei answer the question or if you have an answer to what is being asked write it. As far as your question it is irrelvent to this topic but if you would like to discuss it just make a new topic and put it up there. Peace, Hasan

Hi Hasan, okay.   I picked a bad entry point to the main subject title (from where did the trinity teaching come?)
 
Separate from your question to AgnesDei, the trinity teaching is found in the new testament itself .

Jesus said he was with the Father before the creation of the world.    Jesus also said no-one has seen the Father except the Son (Jesus).   Only God existed before creation.    Which meant the person Jesus - who was he?

Prior to creation, there was no empty space with God taking up part of that empty space... because that would mean God is limited.   There was nothing but God, no empty space.   Space for the creation had to be defined within the presence of God.

God is spirit (the third person of the trinity), therefore, in order to provide a physical place for creation, a boundary space within God as Spirit had to be established.   God, as someone creation could interact with, entered that defined spaced as the Lord, coming forth from the Father, who creation can perceive as the Lord of heaven. The Lord is who Adam and Eve knew in the garden of Eden.    The Lord is who's back Moses saw on Mt. Sinai.

The nt says Jesus is the Lord from heaven.  When the Lord "came forth" from the Father into the space where creation would take place, which Jesus said he did come forth from the Father, that made him the Son of God  before anything was created.    The nt says of Jesus, God "sent" his Son into the world, which means that he was God's Son before entering the world.   (which is something no muslim or anti-trinitarian can get around)

The Lord, Son of God (the Father), entered this world by being born of Mary.   Therefore, Catholics do have a basis for Mary being the mother of God, in a limited sense as Jesus was also the Son of man, by being the son of Mary, a human.    But she herself was not the Mother of God, meaning mother of the Lord of Heaven on the eternal scale, since she herself was a created being.

Catholicism btw says that the Son emanated from the Father.    The kjv nt says "comes forth" which means the same thing. 

Doug L.



Edited by Douggg - 07 April 2011 at 3:29am

Mansoor_ali wrote:  To AgnesDei  Here is my previous response to your article:    My dear IssaEl,  All of the statements you quote from Our Lord are correct.  He did say them.  It is quite easily understood if you read my scripture.  God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are ONE.  Three entities which comprise one God.  He was  speaking in the entity of God in those statements.  When Jesus cried out from the cross he was human.  Jesus was fully human in every way while he walked among us here one earth.In the scripture where Jesus was being tempted by Satan, he rebuked him saying "thou shall not tempt the LORD THY GOD."    "thou shall not tempt the LORD THY GOD." If you read in context it refers to Father not Jesus Christ.  We just celebrated Saint Patrick's Day on the 17th.  St. Patrick of Ireland (I'm Irish too) used the shamrock to illustrate the Holy Trinity.  There are 3 leaves on the shamrock, yet it is one shamrock.  This is the same as the Trinity.  I know it is difficult for you to understand, and asking questions is good for us all.  It is a step toward learning and respecting the other person's faith.  It is a step toward peace.    On this Sunday may the God of us all bring you great peace and blessings!  The shamrock analogy is incorrect because it implies that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (the three leaves) are "parts" of God (the shamrock), and not fully God themselves (a single leaf is not the shamrock).

Mansoor_ali wrote:  To AgnesDei  Jesus was the one whom Satan was tempting.....this is why Jesus said "thou shall not tempt 'the Lord thy God.'  He was making it clear that Satan knew he (Jesus) is also "the Lord thy God."  Let me quote Matthew 4:1-7  1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a]2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 by the devil. The tempter came to him and said, �If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.�  4 Jesus answered, �It is written: �Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.�[b]�  5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 �If you are the Son of God,� he said, �throw yourself down. For it is written:    ��He will command his angels concerning you,    and they will lift you up in their hands,    so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.�[c]�  7 Jesus answered him, �It is also written: �Do not put the Lord your God to the test.�[d]�    If you read verse 7 in context then you realize that it refers to Father not Jesus Christ.Keep in mind verse 6 when you read verse 7.  Yes, a portion of a shamrock is still a shamrock, my friend.  It is not a rose, nor a potato.  If a baby is born without its arms.....it is still a baby.  There are various problems with your analogy.For example:  1.) Each leaf is only a part of the clover, any one leaf cannot be said to be the whole clover. With the Trinity each of the persons is not just a separate part of God, each person is fully God.  2.) If one of the leaves were removed it would no longer be a Shamrock.  3.) Shamrock can be divided into three parts but God cannot.