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Wife who is unfaithful

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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2008 at 10:06pm
Well the direction of this thread went in a certain direction.
 
If I understand what Truth Light said is that people use things for their own means. And that includes how we perceive punishment and forgiveness.  The issues are often born out of ignorance of the Quran and Sunnah. So that people see the rule of stoning and it is often only applied in certain siuations.. and that it is not justly and accurately applied.
 
I would think we need a scholar to explain certain sitations and contexts.. like is it acceptable to lie about an affair.. (though one has to be asked i order to lie), or are they referring to if spouse asks if the outfit they are wearing looks good on them or not.. can you lie to make them feel good?
 
That woman has many issues.. and needs to repent and repent for many things.. irreguardless of the husband.  
 
 
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sign*Reader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2008 at 10:15pm

Originally posted by sasha7604 sasha7604 wrote:

Hi,


She is married less than a year and have commited heavy sins during this period.

She have committed adultery twice and ever did an abortion before and after marriage(once, her husband kid ).

Reason why she is astray bcos the husband never gave her the attention and love that she needs.
Why and how did she marry him was it arranged or other ? 

Marriage is a religious contract in Islam; the love is may be may be not proposition!
Most of the time the husband work round the clock and when he is at home they seldom communicate.
It must be a hard to keep up with the bills in Singapore! What was the basis for the marriage?

Things that they spoke about is often about work or when he want her to do his paper work for him. While at night, he only wants her to fulfill his desire and care a less about hers. He never bother to stimulate her before entering and at times is hurts her. Once he is done, he will dozed off.

Would you think that he has gotten some tell tale signs of her premarital monkey business but can�t put the finger on it and just biding time?
If she is guilt ridden she just  won�t get to it!
 He never tell her words of love or show his concern even when the wife is very sick.
She feels empty and no where to pour her sorrows.

After having an abortion! LOL
She don't want to share it with her parents cos she don't want them to know that she is not happy with the marriage, they will look at her husband differently and what she have commited.
Her parents must not have raised her as a proper Muslim who was sleeping around before the marriage. They are a bigger guilty party in this too!
She took care of the husband needs - clothing, meals, house, in laws and etc...
I will be blunt about this she doesn�t have to do these things but the sex part is the main stipulation to make the marriage contract valid. She slept around she will find these issues without much empathy. Personal lube can always come handy, that is the least of the issue here!
Due to all these factors, she claim that she found someone who fills her up with concern, love and pay attention to her needs. This new guy knew that she is a married woman.
LOL all adulteries have excuses but these are lame! Who does she blame for the premarital sex, pregnancy and abortion?

There are lots of K9s for a stray K9 or worst! even  K9 would  protect the offspring!

These are my questions :

1) What will be the punishment for a wife who have committed an adultery and abortion ?
You live in a non Islamic place otherwise the punishment is as follows:

Most places don�t have the enforcement of Quraanic punishments these days so if you need to know what the book calls for--it is as follows and I am not going for the escape clause cuz there is none in this case! It pretty clear..........................
Al-Nour (The Light)

24:2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

With abortions she is looking at her own termination if there could be one cuz I doubt she  and her lover would survive 100 stripes!

2) Should she tell her husband ?


If she wants to kill the meal ticket in a hurry!

3) Can she be forgiven and repent ?

That is $64000 question  only she can answer that if she will own up instead of making excuses!

If you like to know it is woman who makes or  breaks man and ultimately does that to herself!

If you like know the  foundation of Hajj is about the gallant effort and sacrifices of a woman named Hajra in the middle of barren Maccan Hills. What she did for the concern of her child without asking any one to fulfill her own desires that Allah made her effort to be recognized and repeated by millions upon millions  as a ritual to perform their Hajj obligation! And the boy she saved became the progenitor of the great nation that finally brought the Prophet(saw) for us! The mother has three credits against one for dad!

ow should she share about her need and how she feels to the husband ? The husband is don't want to listen to her no matter what is her approach. I ever overheard their conversation once. Her husband tells her off and say 'I dont want to listen' and she wept silently.

I reckon the husband has some telltale signs but he is just going along for the proof!

5) Should she ask for divorce since she is not happy and if she continue or prolonged it, she will get astray.

She shouldn�t have gotten married in first place and she got to get out ASAP!

As her friend, I am worried about her well being and don't want her to 'go down the drain'. Probably you can give me tips and advise how to help her.
I am not married and uncertain the hukum of marriage.

Thank You,
She is already in it and taking her husband with it !

For starter you need to tell her that she is in the hole and she should stop digging!!!
 



Edited by Sign*Reader - 25 May 2008 at 10:46pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2008 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by Salams_wife Salams_wife wrote:

Why is it we find women so expendable and easy to punish?  Why is it we are told to turn the other cheek if a man commits the same sin?  The Quran preaches the same punishment for both genders.  I can't find anything in the Quran or hadiths that supports punishing one gender more than the other. 
 
I would love to know the answer to these questions.
 
 
Because we live in a patriarhcal society. Although the Quranic verses are crystallized, it doesn't mean that the cultural climate will reflect it. I find culture accounts for the many issues people (especially women) face in today's age.


Edited by Israfil - 25 May 2008 at 10:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Salams_wife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2008 at 10:44pm

I wouldn't say that is the case in the United States where women have a lot more rights and cannot be legally punished in such a way.  If you mean muslim countries living under sharia law than I would have to agree with you.  It is patriarchal in those places.  Not only that, but I think women can't afford to have their husbands punished that way because they depend on them for support.  They are less likely to be able to remarry as well, so they chose to turn a blind eye.  A man on the other hand can have his wife stoned to death and have a new wife in no time.  He wouldn't lose anything except a little pride.

By the way, I appreciated your previous post above.  You made some valid points.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasha7604 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2008 at 11:30pm
Well it seems that this topic it becoming too heaty...and different pple have different opinions to it.
I am only asking on behalf of my fren and I take this as a learing lesson for myself. The do's and don't in marriage life.
It is not meant to harm or share 'aibs'.
I guess both husband and wife have their wrongs & mistakes but kept it to themselves.
Probably I agree with Fareeda, if she wants the marriage to work then it could be a secret to her but will only be a burden for life.
If she wants the husband to decide or she don't want to be with him, then she should be honest.

Yes, personnally she have done many wrong decisions in life and past, but she have to be told what is right and wrong so that she would not repeat it again and hopefully repent and may god forgives her.

She came to me to open up and share her sorrows and hopefully as a fren I could help her to be a good muslim women be it whatever happens to her marriage, I shall not intervene it then. That she have to make her own decisions.
We pray the best for her.....

Edited by sasha7604 - 25 May 2008 at 11:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fareeda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2008 at 2:58am
Originally posted by Truth_light24 Truth_light24 wrote:

The meaning of what you posted�� He who covers up the fault and sins of a Muslim, Allah will cover up his sin in this world and in the hereafter�� doesn�t meant to tell a lie just to hide the BIG SIN one has committed. The meaning of this hadith is to avoid backbiting and spreading news about what other has done without having witness or evidences
 
Originally posted by Truth_light24 Truth_light24 wrote:

Allah will not forgive a person unless he repented and Allah has subscribed how a sin be repented. Not through telling a lie and hide it. Face it and submit yourself to what the Quran said about how to repent a BIG SIN�
 
How is she lying if she has not said anything to the husband? She is concealing her sin, which is permitted in Islam. Deceiving her husband while fornicating of course is a sin, but she does not have to reveal her sins and Allah may fgorgive her for her sins:
 
Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Quran Az-Zumar 39:53) 
 
Does it say in this Quran verse that she'll be forgiven only if she "repents" by "telling others of her sin and getting punished"? Where is your evidence from the Quran that Allah will not forgive her sins? Or that He may only forgive her sins if she repents in the way that you describe?
 
Where is your evidence from the Quran and sahih hadith? that when the prophet said this: "He who covers up the fault and sins of a Muslim, Allah will cover up his sin in this world and in the hereafter" means only what you assert that it's only for "certain sins" and not others such as covering of adultery or fornication?
 
If you can not bring your evidence forward then you are misconstruing the words of Allah swt and the Prophet. A Muslim can not put himself above Allah or the Messenger.
 
What did the prophet do whenever an adulterer came and confessed to him about his sin?
 
Did he or did he not turn his face away each time?
 
What did the Prophet do to the woman who made a false oath when her husband made a charge against her about her committing adultery even though her child resembled her partner and not her husband. Did he stone or flog her to death?
 
How did the adulterer and fornicator get punished in those days? Did the prophet make everyone search for them or did they come out of their own accord? Or were they forced to open up their sins? 
 
What is the full narration behind those hadiths?
 
What did the Prophet say about the repentance of those who wanted to receive the punishment and wanted to be purified? Are you saying you are better than them, when the prophet himself said their repentance was far better than any of ours even if they had been left alone to flee and not punished - ie better than those of us who are 'chaste' and never committed adultery or fornicated?
 
What does the Quran say about those not bringing 4 witnesses? And if you didn't... then?
 
If the woman confessed to you and she didn't want to tell her husband what would you do next? Tell her husband? Do you think that is islamic divulging her secret? Will help her to increase her iman or save their marriage as Islam encourages us?
 
What difference is there between her and any other convert? What if she doesn't really know Islam and never was educated?
 
Do you think it is not sinful for you to interfere by telling everyone what she did?
 
In fact, if you do not bring 4 witnesses in the scene of the offence and if you are not in a Islamic court, where a khalifa has been elected then you would become sinful as you are out to defame this woman behind her back by spreading malicious gossip without 4 witnesses at the scene.
 
1.Sinful for forcing her to tell her husband, esp. if she does not know about Islam or about her Islamic rights therefore going against Allah's words that 'there is no compulsion in Islam' as you can not force her into Islam if she doesn't know about it...and many so called Muslims do not know, including those who think they know everything but don't. 
 
2. You would be flogged for not bringing 4 witnesses who witnessed her in the act.
 
3. You would be sinful for harming their marital relationship.
 
4. You will also be trialed for invading her privacy
 
5. Forcing her your interpretation of Islam is considered as oppressing her as there is no compulsion in islam so a Muslim court will also place a trial on you for that, esp. if she is not aware of her deen and if you prevent her from seeking repentance from Allah - and no she doesn't have to etll her husabnd and the whole world when she repents. Repentance is to Allah not to a human being!
 
5. Before she receives any punishment, her husband will be in the Islamic court asked to give compensation for all the physical and emotional pain he caused her during marital rape and for not allowing her to go free so that she could get married and avoided adultery and abortion. The punishment of the slave girl, or someone who is treated as a slave, is halved!
 
Then with compensation on top, if she is right, I'm sure Islamically she would be set freed while you would be flogged - so beware!
  


Edited by fareeda - 26 May 2008 at 3:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fareeda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2008 at 3:13am
 
I do not see these women below being punished or stoned. The prophet told the husband instead to divorce his wife...yes the one who committed adultery.
 
Bukhari Volume:8  Book :82 (Punishment of Disbelievers at War with A)Number :837
 
Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd:

I witnessed the case of Lian (the case of a man who charged his wife for committing illegal sexual intercourse when I was fifteen years old. The Prophet ordered that they be divorced, and the husband said, "If I kept her, I would be a liar." I remember that Az-Zubair also said, "(It was said) that if that woman brought forth the child with such-and-such description, her husband would prove truthful, but if she brought it with such-and-such description looking like a Wahra (a red insect), he would prove untruthful." I heard Az-Zubair also saying, "Finally she gave birth to a child of description which her husband disliked .
 
I do not see the prophet chasing these woman with other men to try and find out what is the truth in order to punish them for their sins or to be stoned to death.
 
Bukhari Volume:8  Book :82 (Punishment of Disbelievers at War with A)Number :830
 
Narrated Abu Huraira:

A bedouin came to Allah's Apostle and said, "My wife has delivered a black child." The Prophet said to him, "Have you camels?" He replied, "Yes." The Prophet said, "What color are they?" He replied, "They are red." The Prophet further asked, "Are any of them gray in color?" He replied, "Yes." The Prophet asked him, "Whence did that grayness come?" He said, "I thing it descended from the camel's ancestors." Then the Prophet said (to him), "Therefore, this child of yours has most probably inherited the color from his ancestors."
What if she had committed adultery? Why didn't the Prophet try and pray to Allah for the truth, or check her out make her confess to her sin and stone her to death or flog her?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fareeda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2008 at 3:33am
Originally posted by Truth_light24 Truth_light24 wrote:

Face it and submit yourself to what the Quran said about how to repent a BIG SIN��
 
According to you then does repentance mean she should she tell her sins out to her husband who may spread it to everyone so that they gossip about her? Is that repentance - telling everyone about your sins?
 
Then according to you, she should she go and get punished by traveling hundreds of miles if necessary to find a 'non-existing' Islamic court. What if faith has not yet entered her heart or she may not have knowledge of what she is doing?
 
How is that supposed to bring her closer to Islam or repentance?
 
Please give your evidence from the Quran and sahih hadith:
 
1. How should she repent?
2. Whom she should repent to?
3. What makes you think she may not repent to Allah if she covered her sin?
4. Where does it say in Islam she must uncover her sin?
5. How is this going to improve their marriage by telling her husband?
6. How is it going to improve her Faith in Allah by being forced to open her sins?
 
 
Re: Face it and submit yourself to what the Quran said
 
I already have submitted to Allah swt.
 
Allah swt did not give you the authority to judge me or others, or to start disputing and attacking for someone else's issues.  You are not Allah, or the judge or jury.
 
If you are a Muslim this is not the way to speak to others and certainly not the way of the Prophet pbuh, who turned his own face away in silence at the adulterer and fornicator. 
 
Now please emulate his practice.
 
Wasalam
 
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