Wife who is unfaithful |
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Hayfa
Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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Well the direction of this thread went in a certain direction.
If I understand what Truth Light said is that people use things for their own means. And that includes how we perceive punishment and forgiveness. The issues are often born out of ignorance of the Quran and Sunnah. So that people see the rule of stoning and it is often only applied in certain siuations.. and that it is not justly and accurately applied.
I would think we need a scholar to explain certain sitations and contexts.. like is it acceptable to lie about an affair.. (though one has to be asked i order to lie), or are they referring to if spouse asks if the outfit they are wearing looks good on them or not.. can you lie to make them feel good?
That woman has many issues.. and needs to repent and repent for many things.. irreguardless of the husband.
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Sign*Reader
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
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Edited by Sign*Reader - 25 May 2008 at 10:46pm |
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Because we live in a patriarhcal society. Although the Quranic verses are crystallized, it doesn't mean that the cultural climate will reflect it. I find culture accounts for the many issues people (especially women) face in today's age. Edited by Israfil - 25 May 2008 at 10:30pm |
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Salams_wife
Senior Member Joined: 31 July 2007 Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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I wouldn't say that is the case in the United States where women have a lot more rights and cannot be legally punished in such a way. If you mean muslim countries living under sharia law than I would have to agree with you. It is patriarchal in those places. Not only that, but I think women can't afford to have their husbands punished that way because they depend on them for support. They are less likely to be able to remarry as well, so they chose to turn a blind eye. A man on the other hand can have his wife stoned to death and have a new wife in no time. He wouldn't lose anything except a little pride. By the way, I appreciated your previous post above. You made some valid points. |
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sasha7604
Starter Joined: 19 May 2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Well it seems that this topic it becoming too heaty...and different pple have different opinions to it.
I am only asking on behalf of my fren and I take this as a learing lesson for myself. The do's and don't in marriage life. It is not meant to harm or share 'aibs'. I guess both husband and wife have their wrongs & mistakes but kept it to themselves. Probably I agree with Fareeda, if she wants the marriage to work then it could be a secret to her but will only be a burden for life. If she wants the husband to decide or she don't want to be with him, then she should be honest. Yes, personnally she have done many wrong decisions in life and past, but she have to be told what is right and wrong so that she would not repeat it again and hopefully repent and may god forgives her. She came to me to open up and share her sorrows and hopefully as a fren I could help her to be a good muslim women be it whatever happens to her marriage, I shall not intervene it then. That she have to make her own decisions. We pray the best for her..... Edited by sasha7604 - 25 May 2008 at 11:31pm |
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fareeda
Groupie Joined: 04 May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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How is she lying if she has not said anything to the husband? She is concealing her sin, which is permitted in Islam. Deceiving her husband while fornicating of course is a sin, but she does not have to reveal her sins and Allah may fgorgive her for her sins:
Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Quran Az-Zumar 39:53)
Does it say in this Quran verse that she'll be forgiven only if she "repents" by "telling others of her sin and getting punished"? Where is your evidence from the Quran that Allah will not forgive her sins? Or that He may only forgive her sins if she repents in the way that you describe? Where is your evidence from the Quran and sahih hadith? that when the prophet said this: "He who covers up the fault and sins of a Muslim, Allah will cover up his sin in this world and in the hereafter" means only what you assert that it's only for "certain sins" and not others such as covering of adultery or fornication? If you can not bring your evidence forward then you are misconstruing the words of Allah swt and the Prophet. A Muslim can not put himself above Allah or the Messenger.
What did the prophet do whenever an adulterer came and confessed to him about his sin?
Did he or did he not turn his face away each time?
What did the Prophet do to the woman who made a false oath when her husband made a charge against her about her committing adultery even though her child resembled her partner and not her husband. Did he stone or flog her to death?
How did the adulterer and fornicator get punished in those days? Did the prophet make everyone search for them or did they come out of their own accord? Or were they forced to open up their sins?
What is the full narration behind those hadiths?
What did the Prophet say about the repentance of those who wanted to receive the punishment and wanted to be purified? Are you saying you are better than them, when the prophet himself said their repentance was far better than any of ours even if they had been left alone to flee and not punished - ie better than those of us who are 'chaste' and never committed adultery or fornicated?
What does the Quran say about those not bringing 4 witnesses? And if you didn't... then?
If the woman confessed to you and she didn't want to tell her husband what would you do next? Tell her husband? Do you think that is islamic divulging her secret? Will help her to increase her iman or save their marriage as Islam encourages us?
What difference is there between her and any other convert? What if she doesn't really know Islam and never was educated?
Do you think it is not sinful for you to interfere by telling everyone what she did?
In fact, if you do not bring 4 witnesses in the scene of the offence and if you are not in a Islamic court, where a khalifa has been elected then you would become sinful as you are out to defame this woman behind her back by spreading malicious gossip without 4 witnesses at the scene.
1.Sinful for forcing her to tell her husband, esp. if she does not know about Islam or about her Islamic rights therefore going against Allah's words that 'there is no compulsion in Islam' as you can not force her into Islam if she doesn't know about it...and many so called Muslims do not know, including those who think they know everything but don't.
2. You would be flogged for not bringing 4 witnesses who witnessed her in the act.
3. You would be sinful for harming their marital relationship.
4. You will also be trialed for invading her privacy
5. Forcing her your interpretation of Islam is considered as oppressing her as there is no compulsion in islam so a Muslim court will also place a trial on you for that, esp. if she is not aware of her deen and if you prevent her from seeking repentance from Allah - and no she doesn't have to etll her husabnd and the whole world when she repents. Repentance is to Allah not to a human being!
5. Before she receives any punishment, her husband will be in the Islamic court asked to give compensation for all the physical and emotional pain he caused her during marital rape and for not allowing her to go free so that she could get married and avoided adultery and abortion. The punishment of the slave girl, or someone who is treated as a slave, is halved!
Then with compensation on top, if she is right, I'm sure Islamically she would be set freed while you would be flogged - so beware!
Edited by fareeda - 26 May 2008 at 3:59am |
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fareeda
Groupie Joined: 04 May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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I do not see these women below being punished or stoned. The prophet told the husband instead to divorce his wife...yes the one who committed adultery.
Bukhari Volume:8 Book :82 (Punishment of Disbelievers at War with A)Number :837
Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd:
I witnessed the case of Lian (the case of a man who charged his wife for committing illegal sexual intercourse when I was fifteen years old. The Prophet ordered that they be divorced, and the husband said, "If I kept her, I would be a liar." I remember that Az-Zubair also said, "(It was said) that if that woman brought forth the child with such-and-such description, her husband would prove truthful, but if she brought it with such-and-such description looking like a Wahra (a red insect), he would prove untruthful." I heard Az-Zubair also saying, "Finally she gave birth to a child of description which her husband disliked . I do not see the prophet chasing these woman with other men to try and find out what is the truth in order to punish them for their sins or to be stoned to death.
Bukhari Volume:8 Book :82 (Punishment of Disbelievers at War with A)Number :830
Narrated Abu Huraira:
A bedouin came to Allah's Apostle and said, "My wife has delivered a black child." The Prophet said to him, "Have you camels?" He replied, "Yes." The Prophet said, "What color are they?" He replied, "They are red." The Prophet further asked, "Are any of them gray in color?" He replied, "Yes." The Prophet asked him, "Whence did that grayness come?" He said, "I thing it descended from the camel's ancestors." Then the Prophet said (to him), "Therefore, this child of yours has most probably inherited the color from his ancestors." What if she had committed adultery? Why didn't the Prophet try and pray to Allah for the truth, or check her out make her confess to her sin and stone her to death or flog her?
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fareeda
Groupie Joined: 04 May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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According to you then does repentance mean she should she tell her sins out to her husband who may spread it to everyone so that they gossip about her? Is that repentance - telling everyone about your sins?
Then according to you, she should she go and get punished by traveling hundreds of miles if necessary to find a 'non-existing' Islamic court. What if faith has not yet entered her heart or she may not have knowledge of what she is doing?
How is that supposed to bring her closer to Islam or repentance?
Please give your evidence from the Quran and sahih hadith: 1. How should she repent?
2. Whom she should repent to?
3. What makes you think she may not repent to Allah if she covered her sin?
4. Where does it say in Islam she must uncover her sin?
5. How is this going to improve their marriage by telling her husband?
6. How is it going to improve her Faith in Allah by being forced to open her sins? Re: Face it and submit yourself to what the Quran said
I already have submitted to Allah swt.
Allah swt did not give you the authority to judge me or others, or to start disputing and attacking for someone else's issues. You are not Allah, or the judge or jury.
If you are a Muslim this is not the way to speak to others and certainly not the way of the Prophet pbuh, who turned his own face away in silence at the adulterer and fornicator.
Now please emulate his practice.
Wasalam
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