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19th question about islam

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believer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2008 at 6:23am
yes, blamelss up to that time, but not perfectly sinless-
 
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2008 at 3:12pm
believer,
you were talking of 'righteousness' when you said: "All men are sinners and fall short of the righteousness of GOD." and not sinlessness.
I agree that probably none can be sinless, but many can be righteous. And it is righteous to whom God has promised forgiveness and Salvation.
The quote says that Noah was righteous.
And according to the following quotes righteous will be the ones that God will reward the heaven to, that is in contrast to the Christian rhetoric that God needs a sacrifice for us to achieve salvation.
Psalm 34:19
A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all.
Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
So the righteous will be successful in the hereafter even according to what's left of the previous scriptures, and the Quran confirms it.
3:15..."For the righteous are Gardens in nearness to their Lord, with rivers flowing beneath; therein is their eternal home; with companions pure, and the good pleasure of God."
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 21 May 2008 at 3:16pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2008 at 6:30am
There is still that debt to be paid to even the scales. 
 
It may not be that GOD demands egual scales of justice but that is just the nature of GOD.  GOD's brillance of morality and what is good and right.
 
We can not look GOD in the face, His pure goodness.
 
Sorry, I can't seem to explain this idea any better. 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2008 at 12:52pm
believer,
I don't think the matter is as confusing as you seem. Its much simpler.
Let me recap and make it further simple:
You claimed that "All men are sinners and fall short of the righteousness of GOD."
I agree all men may be sinners, but men can be righteous. I quoted your Bible to prove my point: Genesis 6:9 "Noah was a righteous man"
Then you said, "righteous but not sinless" (thus needing Jesus' sacrifice for salvation)
I showed in reponse that to the righteous God will show His Mercy and forgive their mistakes toward salvation. (no sacrifice or ransom needed, remmeber God has power over everything, if He says "I forgive", is there anything or anyone that can challange that?
And I quoted these verses from your book:
Psalm 34:19
A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all.
Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
 
If there is still any confusion, let me know and I will explain further,
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 29 May 2008 at 12:58pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2008 at 12:18pm

No confusion here.  Maybe this will help you.

"reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."

John 3

8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

 

Luke 19

 

10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."

 

Hebrews 2

 

 14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

 
Psalm 34:19 does not necessarily deal with the after life- more of this life.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2008 at 6:30am
 Believer, your above quotes need not be challenged as wrong. But they are not useful because they are not related to the issue at hand. It is shown to you that a righteous man will shine and is saved by the Grace of God. Also, if one is called righteous then he is free from sin. A sinful man will not be called righteous by God Almighty. How can a man be righteous and sinful at the same time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2008 at 3:31pm
Maybe not at the exact same time but though out the time of a person's life one who is righteous could also at another time be sinful.
 
You must carefully read the Bible:
 
"blameless among the people of his time"
 
Noah is righteous compared to the people of his time- he is not being compared to the righteousness of Jesus.
 
Genesis 6
 
  9 This is the account of Noah.
      Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.
 
GOD always chooses the least of evils to carry out His plan.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2008 at 5:32pm
believer,
if you just pay attention to your words, you will find them to be inconsistant. You said: "reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."
 
If its true what you have just said, then it seems like that it was not achieved, was it?
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 11 June 2008 at 5:34pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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