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myahya View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 May 2008 at 1:26am
Delta: I said that I hate Islam (religion) because I see muslims lost and emptiness, just fearing the wrath of God, nothing more...they fear and don't love, they make rituals but yet they are hungry, and I feel sorrow

Unfortunately many people in this world are only looking at what Muslims do (or I�d better to say what news show them how Muslims are). As a Muslim I am personally sorry and I also feel deepest sorrow when I see lost Muslims and evil actions done by a group of lost Muslims or at least populations who have the label of being Muslim. But again, one can not say they hate Islam because of what the lost Muslims (or a Muslim-labeled population) may do or have done. Instead, they shall be sincere and do their best to be not lost and find the truth. It is our responsibility as a human being, isn�t it? I accept it (and do myself) if one says they hate the evil action of those who have been trying to produce and inject deviations in religions specially Islam and feel sorrow for those who are lost in this evil strategies and pray and do their best to not be a victim.

Who has told you Islam is only for fearing and wrath of God? Is it written in Quran? Or Mohammad (sawa) said? Go back to the life of the prophets (all of them) and you can see the deepest acts of love towards Allah swt. But please try not to be a one dimensional person who says everything is love and there is nothing more. I do not accept it. As soon as you speak of love, the hate is on the other side of the coin. Finding and choosing the right couple of love/hate in this world would be our art.

A prayer just like this :

God, please give me strength in your truth , I want to love you, to give my soul and my life to you

Such a prayer is what a sincere Muslim used to do everyday. Smile



Edited by myahya - 16 May 2008 at 4:35am
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Delta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2008 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

May I ask, if that view is personal? because I don't know of any who associate themselves to the Roman Catholic church and yet discount the entire O/T.


No, We don't dismiss the OT, I just said that it is very old, and I mean very old...the time when the message of God was somehow tempered with human laws

You see that when Moses admitted divorce, then Jesus said : No, God don't allow that...

OT was not the verbatim word of God.....was just inspired

But Jesus is in fact the verbatim word of God made flesh

========
I also find it quite contrary to your interest in proving evidance of events through history, yet discounting an important source of history, for many if not for me.
=========

Jesus renewed it all, made things clear because He is the verbatim word of God in flesh

Old laws was clarified, renewed, so for a catholic the OT is a collection of prophecies about the Messiah and the history of the jews......as history unfolds...we reach Jesus who renewed it all

You have in here the words of Jesus about OLD and NEW

And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

Mark, 2-22


================
Let me ask you this also, why do you hate the belief that says: submit to the Will of God, the One who gave you life, and the ability to see, hear, feel, think and so on?
===========

Good question, Honeto

I'm a father of two little children, our relationship is based on love and not fear and
slavery. What I most want from my children is love not fear and horror

And they as little children can't give me nothing

God is not a
tyrannic, He doesn't put you in straightjackets with a bunch of rules :

do this, do that, how to pray, how to eat, how to wear, how to wash, etc...etc...

Where God is there is liberty

(2 Corinthians 3,17)
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is]
liberty.

God doesn't need that men make a home for Him, He is the CREATOR, can't He make his own home in this world ? does He need men for that ?

God is love and nothing more

I said that I hate Islam (religion) because I see muslims lost and emptiness, just fearing the wrath of God, nothing more...they fear and don't love, they make rituals but yet they are hungry, and I feel sorrow

Love him Honeto, don't fear Him, open your heart, and just say to Him that you want to know Him and Love

A prayer just like this :

- Who are you God ? please give me strength in your truth , I want to love you, to give my soul and my life to you

What I mean is make your prayers, but never be biased with God

You will get your answer, believe me

============
Becaue that's all I do as a Muslim, submit with my whole heart and whole self, to none other than God.
Peace,
============

My little childrens don't submit to me, they love me

They run to me giving me kisses, a lot, and I am glad...is just what I want from them : love

When you love, then you respect
When you love, then you don't do anything wrong

Love is the key for not making sins


 


Edited by Delta - 15 May 2008 at 3:16pm
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Nausheen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:36pm
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir Rajeem,
Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim
 
>>As for religion, I must say that I hate Islam, make that very clear. But not muslims as you and all of you. I attack Islam, not persons, i.e., muslims<<
 
Sounds like "hate the sin but not the sinner" approach got messed up this time.
 
The arabic word Islam is from the root : seen, laam, mim, which means "peace".
Islam means "submission to the will of God". Those who do this act of submission are termed "muslims" - to understand this one may need to know arabic - how nouns and verbs come from the  same root, but have different beginnings and endings.  
 
So, you said in your post that you hate "peace", and "the act of submission to God", however you do not hate those who perform this act, ie who "submit to God".
 
Does that bear any logic?
 
You hate a religion but not the followers of that religion? That is only possible if you think the followers are not sincere to the path they associate themselves to, or are not passionate enough for their choices. Neither of which is true. So if you come here with "hate" which by the way is also not congruous to your own faith, you should receive little tolerance.
 
You find this website heavily filtered, but I can still see your membership and your hate comments tolerated in broad daylight - that is some filtering, alhamdulillah.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Nausheen - 14 May 2008 at 10:44pm
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthnowcome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2008 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

tnc-  Yes I know it is in war.  You are completely misunderstanding my point!! 
 
I was agreeing with BMZ that not all the europeans would be slaughtered.-"By simply pointing out just 9:5 as a verse on it's own and showing it as a Commandment to Muslims to fight all others in the world, is being plain dishonest. LOL"
 
"If 9:5 were an order to kill, all the Europeans, [I made this bold] who came and later colonised Muslim lands by deceit, would have been killed the day they stepped in. LOL"
 
Yes, Numbers and Joshua is history of what GOD commanded to keep His chosen people free form horrible negative influence.
 
LOL!!  relax tnc!!

By killing inocent people?

But what you have to say about gentle Jesus sacond coming? Do you think the Zionis Christians is doing the right thing after youwould have read this?:
 

  Now, let look at your King of Kings and Lord of Lords, he is your gentle Jesus; he said if your enemy slap you on one side of your cheek give him the other.

REVELATION 19

It is mentioned: for he is Lord of Lord, and king of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen and faithful. (Rev.17:13-14)

  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (the church) hath made herself ready. (Rev. 19:7)

 And to her (the church) was granted that she (the church) should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saint. (V.8)

 And he said unto me, Write, Bless are THEY which are called unto the marriage SUPPER of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true saying of God. (V.9)

 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that flies in the midst of heaven come and gather yourself together unto the SUPPER of the Great God; that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18)

 We have the saint and the fowls that fly in midst (Air) of heaven, they are called unto the marriage SUPPER to eat of those people. Eat what people, are they cannibal? No! It is war they will declare on them from the air (midst Heaven) which fowls or bird that flies in midst (Air) heaven can eat those people, feather bird or iron bird? Its plane, your gentle Jesus will drop bombs on  the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18)

 This one is a bit more clear: Zechariah 14:12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will (A)rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.

That is a nuclear war, only a Nuke can do that and it is a stone throw in our time!

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smith the nation: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:15)

IT�S YOUR GENTLE JESUS MEEK AND MILD!

And again make no mistake, the �Anointed President� already preparing the way by �bombing away anyone who stand in the way like the bible says they will �eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18)

 This is no joke read for your self:

Link: The Despoiling Of America

How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State

Clip:

The First Prince of the Theocratic States of America

 It happened quietly, with barely a mention in the media. Only the Washington Post dutifully reported it.[1] And only Kevin Phillips saw its significance in his new book, American Dynasty.[2] On December 24, 2001, Pat Robertson resigned his position as President of the Christian Coalition.

 

Behind the scenes religious conservatives were abuzz with excitement. They believed Robertson had stepped down to allow the ascendance of the President of the United States of America to take his rightful place as the head of the true American Holy Christian Church.

 

Robertson�s act was symbolic, but it carried a secret and solemn revelation to the faithful. It was the signal that the Bush administration was a government under God that was led by an anointed President who would be the first regent in a dynasty of regents awaiting the return of Jesus to earth. The President would now be the minister through whom God would execute His will in the nation. George W. Bush accepted his scepter and his sword with humility, grace and a sense of exultation.

 

As Antonin Scalia, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court explained a few months later, the Bible teaches and Christians believe �� that government �derives its moral authority from God. Government is the �minister of God� with powers to �revenge,� to �execute wrath,� including even wrath by the sword��[3]

 George W. Bush began to wield the sword of God�s revenge with relish from the beginning of his administration, but most of us missed the sword play. I have taken the liberty to paraphrase an illustration from Leo Strauss, the father of the neo-conservative movement, which gives us a clue of how the hiding is done:

�One ought not to say to those whom one wants to kill, �Give me your votes, because your votes will enable me to kill you and I want to kill you,� but merely, �Give me your votes,� for once you have the power of the votes in your hand, you can satisfy your desire.�[4]

Notwithstanding the advice, the President�s foreign policy revealed a flair for saber rattling. He warned the world that �nations are either with us or they�re against us!� His speeches, often containing allusions to biblical passages, were spoken with the certainty of a man who holds the authority of God�s wrath on earth, for he not only challenged the evil nations of the world, singling out Iraq, Syria, Iran, and North Korea as the �axis of evil,� but he wielded the sword of punishment and the sword of revenge against his own people: the American poor and the middle class who according to the religious right have earned God�s wrath by their licentiousness and undisciplined lives.

 End of quote

---------------------------

And he also has his flock to help him: American Christian Fundamentalist Leader Calls For Global War),

TV Evangelist John Hagee Wants War With Iran, and He Wants It Now! by Bill Barnwell

Destroy Islam clip:

By David Corn

13/03/08 "Mother Jones" -- -- Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

 

 
 
 
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:54pm
Delta-
 
 
My apologies but I have to jump on the band wagon myself. No sincere Christian with the intent on dialogue wll start discussion with the following thesis: I hate Islam not muslims.
 
That simplistic, yet contradictory tone is non-sensical. You cannot dettach all Muslims from their religion especially Muslims who practice Islam faitfully the same can be said about Christians and Christianity. Unless you consider Muslims misguided (which is your opinion) it does you no good and no converts by starting a thesis using the word "hate."
 
I think the main problem with Christians coming to this site is they come here trying to disprove Islam while many of them only have an amateur's knowledge of Islam. While else would many of them spend time googling or net searching on anti-Islam websites? If Christians have a sincere disagreement with Islam you must be prepared to accept all kinds of responses and different answers not simply reject ones and accept ones.
 
For example many Christians don't understand (and it took me awhile to understand) that  the Arabic language isn't as simplistic as English. There are many words in Arabic when translated into English, have different meanings. Although the English translations and the usage of words are clear to us English speakers there are words which may require explaining.
 
For instance in the first Surah "The Exordium" or The Opening, in the penguin edition of the Qur'an God says in first-person-plural:
 
"All praises are due to Allah Lord of the Universe!"
 
Some other Qur'an say "All praise sare due (to Allah) Creator and Sustainer of the Worlds!"
 
The word Alameen has different meanings. It means universe, worlds etc. It means "all that exists."
 
I think it is in the best interest of our Christian neighbors to come with a more humble approach. Instead of posting stuff about "The truth about Islam" to anti-Islamic sites. This is not proving a point objectively its doing it the lazy way!


Edited by Israfil - 13 May 2008 at 9:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:29pm
Delta,
I am glad to see you composed, thank God. Welcome, may God help us all.
In response to my quotes from the O/T, you wrote:
"Old is Old, and prior to Jesus I don't give much of authority, because the plan of God was not yet fulfilled " 
May I ask, if that view is personal? because I don't know of any who associate themselves to the Roman Catholic church and yet discount the entire O/T.
I also find it quite contrary to your interest in proving evidance of events through history, yet discounting an important source of history, for many if not for me.
Let me ask you this also, why do you hate the belief that says: submit to the Will of God, the One who gave you life, and the ability to see, hear, feel, think and so on?
Becaue that's all I do as a Muslim, submit with my whole heart and whole self, to none other than God.
Peace,
Hasan
 
 



Edited by honeto - 13 May 2008 at 6:38pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2008 at 5:52am
tnc-  Yes I know it is in war.  You are completely misunderstanding my point!! 
 
I was agreeing with BMZ that not all the europeans would be slaughtered.-"By simply pointing out just 9:5 as a verse on it's own and showing it as a Commandment to Muslims to fight all others in the world, is being plain dishonest. LOL"
 
"If 9:5 were an order to kill, all the Europeans, [I made this bold] who came and later colonised Muslim lands by deceit, would have been killed the day they stepped in. LOL"
 
Yes, Numbers and Joshua is history of what GOD commanded to keep His chosen people free form horrible negative influence.
 
LOL!!  relax tnc!!
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthnowcome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2008 at 4:29am
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

tnc I don't think you understood my statement-
 
I understand these verses as: 
The pagans who convert to Islam
or
have a treaty with Muslims
or
repent 
or
ask for your protection will not be slain. 
 
Only those that resist will be killed.  Is that correct?
 

 My friend, those verses we are discussing there has to do with war, Muslims against the Pagans. There were a truce agreed between them in verse 009.004 YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

 But when the truce ended the are still at war verse 009.005 YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

 When you are at war what you do to the enemy, watch them or try to kill them? Take in consideration modern day war; it�s the same war with the Pagans and Muslims only it is modern day Pagans (Halloween it there their trade mark); it�s just that they barrow the bible to move the masses in disguise.

 Now, when the occupier (modern day Pagans) in Iraq sees the resistances (Muslims) what you think they will do, watch them or kill them? They (Pagans Crusaders) are using Drones in the sky looking for them and when they saw them even if women and children are there they still drop the bomb on them killing every one.

  Its war my friend! But the problem is you didn�t recognize this verse 009.006 YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

 Now, let�s just stop for a moment and go back when the crusaders begin to invade Iraq. Do you think when they capture a Muslim in the midst of the war the will leave their position and �escort him to a secure place�? Wake up my friend!!!

Numbers 31

3And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.

7And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

9And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

 10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

21And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Mose

Joshua 6

 2And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour

3And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.

 20So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

 21And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

 

Jesus (S) to the effect, do not look at the speck in some one eye but first remove the plank that in your eye.

truthnowcome

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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