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Jesus was crucified according to historia |
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myahya 
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 Posted: 11 July 2008 at 3:16am |
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minuteman: Very good. Jesus said that he would die.
It was true and he died. |
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believer
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Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397 |
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Posted: 11 July 2008 at 6:15am |
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003.055 follows 003.054
YUSUFALI: And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. PICKTHAL: And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. SHAKIR: And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners What did they plot and plan? Jesus' crucifixion!!!
Jesus was crucified and He was raised up to sit at the right hand of GOD.
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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myahya
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Posted: 12 July 2008 at 3:54am |
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Believer: YUSUFALI:
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself
and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those
who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection:
Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters
wherein ye dispute. �I will take thee and
raise thee to Myself� doesn't show that Isa (as) is already died. Being taken and raised up to Allah swt doesn't show that it must have been done through death. In this verse the Arabic
word �Motevaffik� is used for taking Isa (as) which is never employed
for showing �death� in Quran. Instead, the word �Mowt� is used in Quran for
�death� and the word �Ghatl� is used for �Killing�. follows 003.054 What did they plot and
plan? Jesus' crucifixion!!! Even if we interpret as you
said, it again does not show that they could perform what they planned.
It only says that they had a plan and emphasizes that Allah swt is the best planner. Following verses confirms
what I am saying: Quran (4:158): Nay! Allah took him up to Himself and Allah is mighty wise. Edited by myahya - 12 July 2008 at 4:02am |
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robin
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Posted: 14 July 2008 at 12:51am |
I Jesus Christ had not died, then Christianity would not of existed!
Romans 5:6-11
For, indeed, Christ, while we were yet weak, died for ungodly men at the appointed time. 7 For hardly will anyone die for a righteous [man]; indeed, for the good [man], perhaps, someone even dares to die. 8 But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more, therefore, since we have been declared righteous now by his blood, shall we be saved through him from wrath. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, now that we have become reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only that, but we are also exulting in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
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minuteman
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Posted: 14 July 2008 at 3:35am |
Yes, I do believe that all prophets have died including Isa a.s. But it would need some explanation. So please refer to the Quran and Hadith and try to find out if there is any verse of Quran which says that Jesus is alive. Or any Hadith which says that Jesus is still alive and he has not died. You can do that yourself. But if necessary, you may approach me. Thanks.
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myahya
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Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:35am |
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minuteman: So please refer to
the Quran and Hadith and try to find out if there is any verse of Quran which
says that Jesus is alive. When Allah says in Quran that they did not kill or crucify
Isa (as) but We took him up, it may mean one of two following interpretations: First interpretation: Allah swt took only Isa�s spirit up
(death) Second interpretation: Allah swt took both Isa�s spirit and
body up Anyway, thanks for the reply and I will look more into this concept. Edited by myahya - 15 July 2008 at 1:37am |
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Nur_Ilahi
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Posted: 15 July 2008 at 2:12am |
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Hi Minuteman. Lately I had been very interested in Sufism. The pure Sufism that was taught by our Prophet Muhammad Salallahualaihiwasallam. Sufism is more spiritual than physical. It teaches us to cleanse ourselves from the bad influence of Satan and how to cleanse the Nafs or the ego which is in ourselves. As we know there are 7 levels of Nafs, the lowest being the worst and the top most being the purest.
The great sufis that we read in our history books knows the power of the Ruh or spirit. As we know without our Ruh, we cannot do anything at all. We are useless. It is the Ruh that acts like electricity to our body that enable us to do anything that we like.
This Ruh once purified from Nafs and Satan could penetrate and envelope our physical body. I have read about Sufis that can walk on water, that could be present in two places at one time. In Isra' Mi'raj, our dear Prophet Muhammad was taken up in the night journey with Jibril alaihissalam. How did he do it? It is this same way. So was Jesus alaihissalam. These prophets of Allah, had got pure spirits that can penetrate and envelope the whole body.
In short, Jesus had not died, but is still in the presence of Allah and will return soon very soon indeed as the world now is very sick and need him to affirm the Oneness of God Almighty and unite the whole world under one banner of LA ILA HAILALLAH MUHAMMADURASULULLAH.
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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minuteman
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Posted: 15 July 2008 at 12:38pm |
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I agree with your points regarding Sufism and the purification of the soul (Nafs). You are right. But I do not agree that Isa a.s. is alive now. That is because the Quran is clearly telling that his Ruh went up to Allah (that is forever, never to return to earth). That is the word Tawaffa. It has a meaning "To capture or take the soul" It is done in two ways. 1. During sleep. 2. During death.
When soul is taken away during sleep, it is returned back to the body (Al Quran 39:42) but when it is taken away during death it is withheld and not returned to body. The soul is taken and body is left behind.
IN the case of Isa .a.s. his soul has gone away to its high place forever. But you please see the Hadith too. If you know any Hadith that says Isa a.s. is still alive. I have not seen any.
It is not right that our prophet Muhammad has died and gone away for ever but a prophet of some other Ummah may be alive. That is not possible. No prophet is alive now. All prophets have passed away. (3:144) Edited by minuteman - 15 July 2008 at 12:44pm |
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myahya wrote: