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Jesus was crucified according to historia |
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myahya 
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Joined: 06 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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 Posted: 04 July 2008 at 11:23pm |
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Angel: Some christians, signify Jesus
upholding his identification with his humanity and fellowship with mankind,
perhaps also conveying the idea that Jesus is the man par excellence. In this
last context it serves as putting humans and Jesus on the same level. As I told before, many
verses (such as the above ones) apparently show that �The son of man� can not
be Isa (as) because Isa (as) is talking about �The son of man� as a third
person. Jewish interpretation As generally interpreted by Jews, denotes mankind generally, with special reference to their weakness and frailty (Job 25:6; Psalms 8:4; 144:3; 146:3; Book of Isaiah 51:12, etc.). This can not be a general issue: The son of man. It is a title frequently given
to the prophet Ezekiel,
probably to remind him of his human weakness. In which verse? And what is the evidence for this claim? Additionally, the Biblical book of Daniel
mentions the prophet's vision of the coming of one 'like a son of man';
possibly implying that this is not actually a man but a divine figure. When interpreting the Bible, one cannot exclusively rely on English translations. Son of man in Job 25 is ben adam (Hebrew: בן־אדם), and "son of man" in Psalms 144 is ben enosh (Hebrew: בן־אנוש). Again, it is The son of man. I am not convinced that it is generally referring to human or Bani Adam, while I do not think this comes from a bad translation.However, if we can not rely exclusively on the translation then on what ground Christians quote the verses of Bible? You see, even a bad translation of "a" to "the" or vice versa in a Holy scripture can make a considerable deviation. Edited by myahya - 04 July 2008 at 11:32pm |
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believer
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Posted: 05 July 2008 at 6:18am |
John 1014"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me� 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father�and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life�only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." |
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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minuteman
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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 1:08am |
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Yes we know Jesus had other sheep too. But they were not in Palestine (kana'an). robin wrote:
JESUS SAID HE WOULD DIE! Jesus Christ as one of God�s prophets, cannot lie, he said he would die, not someone in his place!
Very good. Jesus said that he would die. It was true and he died. But not on the cross please. He may have died some where else. He also said that he will die himself and not some one in his place. That is also very good and correct. We do not believe that some one else died in place of Jesus.
It follows that he must have said that every one will bear his own burden and no one will bear the burden (of sins) of others.. He must have said it. The same is written in the Quran that no one will bear the burden of others.
When no one else will die in place of Jesus then why should Jesus bear the burden of others? That would be un-natural, illegal, irrational. |
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believer
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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 6:48am |
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LOL!! minuteman you are looking at Jesus as mere man.
Jesus layed His life down for us- sacrifice.
Jesus was a gift of grace given to each and everyone of us from GOD. By Jesus' sacrifice the debt of sin is paid.
GOD will judge you, the Muslim by how many good deeds you have performed, the Christian by their faith in Jesus.
I praise GOD for the beautiful gift of eternal life He has given me through Jesus.
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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minuteman
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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 6:52pm |
You are not right. Jesus gave his life for you or me, i.e. sacrifice. But is Jesus the only person who gave his life in the cause of truth? If some one else also gave his life for us, shall we make him into a god?
You are mistaken about being judged by faith alone. That was a wrong lesson given to you by Saul of Tarsus. Jesus called every one to faith and good deeds. You are mistaken all around.
By Jesus sacrifice (unwilling sacrifice) the debt of sin cannot be paid. Who told you that and why should it be like that. I told you that many had given their life in the way of Allah. Jesus was not the only one. Please think over.
I have read some replies from Ron in another thread. He seems to be more near truth than you. We have noticed that you people use too many symbols / metaphors without telling that you are talking in symbolic language. You say that jesus was son of God. But you know that he was not son in the real sense of the word. But only in symbolic language, it could be so.
I will retrun later, please.
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minuteman
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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 4:12am |
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In the meantime, robin, please let us know :
1. if Jesus was the real son of God?
2. If Ishmael was the real son of Abraham?
What is your opinion please? Edited by minuteman - 08 July 2008 at 4:14am |
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believer
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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 6:55am |
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Hebrews 10
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; 6with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. 7Then I said, 'Here I am�it is written about me in the scroll� I have come to do your will, O God.' " 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. minuteman -remember faith without works is dead.
Remember each letter, Epistle in the New Testament was written to a different church. Each church lacking in a different way in following the truth.
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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robin
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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 10:04am |
Yes and Yes.
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