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Jesus was crucified according to historia
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xfrodobagginsx View Drop Down
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The problem with islam is that it directly contradicts that actual Biblical eyewitness accounts of those who were actually there AND the historical writings of the day. Mohammad didn't live until 500 years later.  The Bible proves that the quran is false and you should believe the Bible, not the quran.  The prophecies fulfilled of Jesus in the Bible also affirm it is Scripture and the quran contradicts the prophecies in the Bible as well.  
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asep garutea View Drop Down
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Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx xfrodobagginsx wrote:

The problem with islam is that it directly contradicts that actual Biblical eyewitness accounts of those who were actually there AND the historical writings of the day. Mohammad didn't live until 500 years later.  The Bible proves that the quran is false and you should believe the Bible, not the quran.  The prophecies fulfilled of Jesus in the Bible also affirm it is Scripture and the quran contradicts the prophecies in the Bible as well.  
Sorry, which Bible? The Bible in the time of Jesus or today? I'll believe in the Bible when Jesus was still on earth.
Therefore, there are some verses contradic between the Quran and the Bible today.
Do you believe that Jesus is still alive or has long died on the cross?
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Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx xfrodobagginsx wrote:

The problem with islam is that it directly contradicts that actual Biblical eyewitness accounts of those who were actually there AND the historical writings of the day. Mohammad didn't live until 500 years later.  The Bible proves that the quran is false and you should believe the Bible, not the quran.  The prophecies fulfilled of Jesus in the Bible also affirm it is Scripture and the quran contradicts the prophecies in the Bible as well.  
Sorry, which Bible? The Bible in the time of Jesus or today? I'll believe in the Bible when Jesus was still on earth.
Therefore, there are some verses contradic between the Quran and the Bible today.
Do you believe that Jesus is still alive or has long died on the cross?


Explain first all the suras thats abrogated in the Quran then I will tell which Bible is the true one, cause your only scapegoat is a corrupt bible in matter fact all the different Qurans is false and corrupt,

There is anyway no proof the Quran is God's word you know why cause it can not be God's word but Muhammad's own words and stollen words.
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asep garutea View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx xfrodobagginsx wrote:

The problem with islam is that it directly contradicts that actual Biblical eyewitness accounts of those who were actually there AND the historical writings of the day. Mohammad didn't live until 500 years later.  The Bible proves that the quran is false and you should believe the Bible, not the quran.  The prophecies fulfilled of Jesus in the Bible also affirm it is Scripture and the quran contradicts the prophecies in the Bible as well.  
Sorry, which Bible? The Bible in the time of Jesus or today? I'll believe in the Bible when Jesus was still on earth.
Therefore, there are some verses contradic between the Quran and the Bible today.
Do you believe that Jesus is still alive or has long died on the cross?


Explain first all the suras thats abrogated in the Quran then I will tell which Bible is the true one, cause your only scapegoat is a corrupt bible in matter fact all the different Qurans is false and corrupt,

There is anyway no proof the Quran is God's word you know why cause it can not be God's word but Muhammad's own words and stollen words.
How will I explain the surah that abrogated in the Qoran ?'if I believe that all the surahs in the Qoran are the Words of Allah.
You should prove it to me yourself. (It seems you are confused).
While I can prove to you about the different verses in the present gospel.

You yourself do not dare to say the name of the Gospels that you believe (Luke? Mark? Matthew, John?), Because it would conflict with other Pastors who are not the same book as you.

These are proofs that the Qoran is the word of Allah:

Qoran 10:38
Allah Ta'ala Said:

اَمْ يَقُوْلُوْنَ افْتَـرٰٮهُ  ۗ  قُلْ فَ�£ْتُوْا بِسُوْرَةٍ مِّثْلِهٖ وَادْعُوْا مَنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ مِّنْ دُوْنِ اللّٰهِ اِنْ كُنْتُمْ صٰدِقِيْنَ

"Is it proper for them to say he (Muhammad) made it up (the Qoran) ? Say, Make a letter such as a letter (in the Qoran), and invite anyone among you who is able to (make it) other than Allah, if you are a righteous person."
(Yunus 10: 38)

Qoran 11:14
Allah Ta'ala Said:

فَاِلَّمْ يَسْتَجِيْبُوْا لَـكُمْ فَاعْلَمُوْۤا اَنَّمَاۤ اُنْزِلَ بِعِلْمِ اللّٰهِ وَاَنْ لَّاۤ اِلٰهَ  اِلَّا هُوَ ۚ  فَهَلْ اَنْتُمْ مُّسْلِمُوْنَ

"So if they don't meet your challenge, then (say), Know, that (the Qoran) was sent down by Allah's knowledge, and that there is no God but Him, then will you surrender (convert to Islam)? "
(Hud 11: 14)

Qoran 15:9
Allah Ta'ala Said:

اِنَّا نَحْنُ  نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَاِنَّا لَهٗ لَحٰـفِظُوْنَ

"Indeed, we who revealed the Qoran, and surely we (also) are who maintain it."
(Al-Hijr 15: 9)

And many more.

It is impossible that the Qoran is not the word of Allah because since the 16th century it has been proven about the truth of the Qoran by scientists such as verses related to astronomy, biology, etc. Even though the Qoran was revealed around the 6th century, at that time there was no such knowledge.
Has the Prophet Muhammad made the Qur'an ? No, the Qoran is coming from Allah who created all humans including Jesus.
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Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx xfrodobagginsx wrote:

The problem with islam is that it directly contradicts that actual Biblical eyewitness accounts of those who were actually there AND the historical writings of the day. Mohammad didn't live until 500 years later.  The Bible proves that the quran is false and you should believe the Bible, not the quran.  The prophecies fulfilled of Jesus in the Bible also affirm it is Scripture and the quran contradicts the prophecies in the Bible as well.  
Sorry, which Bible? The Bible in the time of Jesus or today? I'll believe in the Bible when Jesus was still on earth.
Therefore, there are some verses contradic between the Quran and the Bible today.
Do you believe that Jesus is still alive or has long died on the cross?


Explain first all the suras thats abrogated in the Quran then I will tell which Bible is the true one, cause your only scapegoat is a corrupt bible in matter fact all the different Qurans is false and corrupt,

There is anyway no proof the Quran is God's word you know why cause it can not be God's word but Muhammad's own words and stollen words.
How will I explain the surah that abrogated in the Qoran ?'if I believe that all the surahs in the Qoran are the Words of Allah.
You should prove it to me yourself. (It seems you are confused).
While I can prove to you about the different verses in the present gospel.

You yourself do not dare to say the name of the Gospels that you believe (Luke? Mark? Matthew, John?), Because it would conflict with other Pastors who are not the same book as you.

These are proofs that the Qoran is the word of Allah:

Qoran 10:38
Allah Ta'ala Said:

اَمْ يَقُوْلُوْنَ افْتَـرٰٮهُ  ۗ  قُلْ فَ�£ْتُوْا بِسُوْرَةٍ مِّثْلِهٖ وَادْعُوْا مَنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ مِّنْ دُوْنِ اللّٰهِ اِنْ كُنْتُمْ صٰدِقِيْنَ

"Is it proper for them to say he (Muhammad) made it up (the Qoran) ? Say, Make a letter such as a letter (in the Qoran), and invite anyone among you who is able to (make it) other than Allah, if you are a righteous person."
(Yunus 10: 38)

Qoran 11:14
Allah Ta'ala Said:

فَاِلَّمْ يَسْتَجِيْبُوْا لَـكُمْ فَاعْلَمُوْۤا اَنَّمَاۤ اُنْزِلَ بِعِلْمِ اللّٰهِ وَاَنْ لَّاۤ اِلٰهَ  اِلَّا هُوَ ۚ  فَهَلْ اَنْتُمْ مُّسْلِمُوْنَ

"So if they don't meet your challenge, then (say), Know, that (the Qoran) was sent down by Allah's knowledge, and that there is no God but Him, then will you surrender (convert to Islam)? "
(Hud 11: 14)

Qoran 15:9
Allah Ta'ala Said:

اِنَّا نَحْنُ  نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَاِنَّا لَهٗ لَحٰـفِظُوْنَ

"Indeed, we who revealed the Qoran, and surely we (also) are who maintain it."
(Al-Hijr 15: 9)

And many more.

It is impossible that the Qoran is not the word of Allah because since the 16th century it has been proven about the truth of the Qoran by scientists such as verses related to astronomy, biology, etc. Even though the Qoran was revealed around the 6th century, at that time there was no such knowledge.
Has the Prophet Muhammad made the Qur'an ? No, the Qoran is coming from Allah who created all humans including Jesus.



Your only witeness of the Quran was Muhammad where was the other witnesses come on noboby have seen Muhammad so called Jibrill which was not witnessed or seen by any of Muhammad's comrades.

When anybody seen the Quran came from Allah Muhammad's imaginary god.

Indeed, We sent the Qur’an down during the Night of Decree. (Quran 97:1    By the clear Book, Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn [mankind]. (Quran 44:1-3)

Then it was revealed piece by piece to the Prophet Muhammad.

And [it is] a Qur’an which We have separated [by intervals] that you might recite it to the people over a prolonged period. And We have sent it down progressively. (Quran 17:106)

With this in mind, does it make sense that God decided to cancel out some of the verses or cause them to be forgotten and then replace them with similar other ones?  Or does it make more sense that during the 23 year career of Prophet Muhammad he forgot some of the verses and was called out for it?  Thus the Quran came to his defense that God himself causes some verses to be forgotten and gives him better ones.

We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent? (Quran, 2:106)

Allah and your cult prophet suffered from long term memorie loss they can't remember.

Or how about the fact that the female companions of Prophet Muhammad felt the Quran was unfair because it kept addressing men, and so Allah decided to reveal a verse talking about women as well?

Take a look at this story as recorded in Ibn Kathir   Sa`id bin Mansur recorded that Salamah, a man from the family of Umm Salamah said, “Umm Salamah said, `O Messenger of Allah! Allah does not mention women in connection with Hijrah (Migration).’ Allah sent down the Ayah,   (So their Lord accepted of them (their supplication and answered them), “Never will I allow to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female.)

Yet again we have Allah adjusting what he sends down in response to what people are asking for?

There’s another story in the hadith literature about when Prophet Muhammad scared the people by saying 999 of every 1000 will go to hell.  When he saw their faces change color, he decided to adjust what he said by saying “actually, its Gog and Magog who will be 999, not you guys.”  Then he proceeded to make them very happy by saying they will be half of the people in paradise after just scaring them.  Prophet Muhammad was able to cater and tailor what he said in order to make people follow him.

 Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

 The Prophet said, “On the day of Resurrection Allah will say, ‘O Adam!’ Adam will reply, ‘Labbaik our Lord, and Sa`daik ‘ Then there will be a loud call (saying), Allah orders you to take from among your offspring a mission for the (Hell) Fire.’ Adam will say, ‘O Lord! Who are the mission for the (Hell) Fire?’ Allah will say, ‘Out of each thousand, take out 999.’ At that time every pregnant female shall drop her load (have a miscarriage) and a child will have grey hair. And you shall see mankind as in a drunken state, yet not drunk, but severe will be the torment of Allah.” (22.2)

 When the Prophet mentioned this, the people were so distressed (and afraid) that their faces got changed (in color)

Whereupon the Prophet said, “From Gog and Magog nine-hundred ninety-nine will be taken out and one from you.
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Points: 281 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep garutea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 December 2019 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx xfrodobagginsx wrote:

The problem with islam is that it directly contradicts that actual Biblical eyewitness accounts of those who were actually there AND the historical writings of the day. Mohammad didn't live until 500 years later.  The Bible proves that the quran is false and you should believe the Bible, not the quran.  The prophecies fulfilled of Jesus in the Bible also affirm it is Scripture and the quran contradicts the prophecies in the Bible as well.  
Sorry, which Bible? The Bible in the time of Jesus or today? I'll believe in the Bible when Jesus was still on earth.
Therefore, there are some verses contradic between the Quran and the Bible today.
Do you believe that Jesus is still alive or has long died on the cross?


Explain first all the suras thats abrogated in the Quran then I will tell which Bible is the true one, cause your only scapegoat is a corrupt bible in matter fact all the different Qurans is false and corrupt,

There is anyway no proof the Quran is God's word you know why cause it can not be God's word but Muhammad's own words and stollen words.
How will I explain the surah that abrogated in the Qoran ?'if I believe that all the surahs in the Qoran are the Words of Allah.
You should prove it to me yourself. (It seems you are confused).
While I can prove to you about the different verses in the present gospel.

You yourself do not dare to say the name of the Gospels that you believe (Luke? Mark? Matthew, John?), Because it would conflict with other Pastors who are not the same book as you.

These are proofs that the Qoran is the word of Allah:

Qoran 10:38
Allah Ta'ala Said:

اَمْ يَقُوْلُوْنَ افْتَـرٰٮهُ  ۗ  قُلْ فَ�£ْتُوْا بِسُوْرَةٍ مِّثْلِهٖ وَادْعُوْا مَنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ مِّنْ دُوْنِ اللّٰهِ اِنْ كُنْتُمْ صٰدِقِيْنَ

"Is it proper for them to say he (Muhammad) made it up (the Qoran) ? Say, Make a letter such as a letter (in the Qoran), and invite anyone among you who is able to (make it) other than Allah, if you are a righteous person."
(Yunus 10: 38)

Qoran 11:14
Allah Ta'ala Said:

فَاِلَّمْ يَسْتَجِيْبُوْا لَـكُمْ فَاعْلَمُوْۤا اَنَّمَاۤ اُنْزِلَ بِعِلْمِ اللّٰهِ وَاَنْ لَّاۤ اِلٰهَ  اِلَّا هُوَ ۚ  فَهَلْ اَنْتُمْ مُّسْلِمُوْنَ

"So if they don't meet your challenge, then (say), Know, that (the Qoran) was sent down by Allah's knowledge, and that there is no God but Him, then will you surrender (convert to Islam)? "
(Hud 11: 14)

Qoran 15:9
Allah Ta'ala Said:

اِنَّا نَحْنُ  نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَاِنَّا لَهٗ لَحٰـفِظُوْنَ

"Indeed, we who revealed the Qoran, and surely we (also) are who maintain it."
(Al-Hijr 15: 9)

And many more.

It is impossible that the Qoran is not the word of Allah because since the 16th century it has been proven about the truth of the Qoran by scientists such as verses related to astronomy, biology, etc. Even though the Qoran was revealed around the 6th century, at that time there was no such knowledge.
Has the Prophet Muhammad made the Qur'an ? No, the Qoran is coming from Allah who created all humans including Jesus.



Your only witeness of the Quran was Muhammad where was the other witnesses come on noboby have seen Muhammad so called Jibrill which was not witnessed or seen by any of Muhammad's comrades.

When anybody seen the Quran came from Allah Muhammad's imaginary god.

Indeed, We sent the Qur’an down during the Night of Decree. (Quran 97:1    By the clear Book, Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn [mankind]. (Quran 44:1-3)

Then it was revealed piece by piece to the Prophet Muhammad.

And [it is] a Qur’an which We have separated [by intervals] that you might recite it to the people over a prolonged period. And We have sent it down progressively. (Quran 17:106)

With this in mind, does it make sense that God decided to cancel out some of the verses or cause them to be forgotten and then replace them with similar other ones?  Or does it make more sense that during the 23 year career of Prophet Muhammad he forgot some of the verses and was called out for it?  Thus the Quran came to his defense that God himself causes some verses to be forgotten and gives him better ones.

We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent? (Quran, 2:106)

Allah and your cult prophet suffered from long term memorie loss they can't remember.

Or how about the fact that the female companions of Prophet Muhammad felt the Quran was unfair because it kept addressing men, and so Allah decided to reveal a verse talking about women as well?

Take a look at this story as recorded in Ibn Kathir   Sa`id bin Mansur recorded that Salamah, a man from the family of Umm Salamah said, “Umm Salamah said, `O Messenger of Allah! Allah does not mention women in connection with Hijrah (Migration).’ Allah sent down the Ayah,   (So their Lord accepted of them (their supplication and answered them), “Never will I allow to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female.)

Yet again we have Allah adjusting what he sends down in response to what people are asking for?

There’s another story in the hadith literature about when Prophet Muhammad scared the people by saying 999 of every 1000 will go to hell.  When he saw their faces change color, he decided to adjust what he said by saying “actually, its Gog and Magog who will be 999, not you guys.”  Then he proceeded to make them very happy by saying they will be half of the people in paradise after just scaring them.  Prophet Muhammad was able to cater and tailor what he said in order to make people follow him.

 Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

 The Prophet said, “On the day of Resurrection Allah will say, ‘O Adam!’ Adam will reply, ‘Labbaik our Lord, and Sa`daik ‘ Then there will be a loud call (saying), Allah orders you to take from among your offspring a mission for the (Hell) Fire.’ Adam will say, ‘O Lord! Who are the mission for the (Hell) Fire?’ Allah will say, ‘Out of each thousand, take out 999.’ At that time every pregnant female shall drop her load (have a miscarriage) and a child will have grey hair. And you shall see mankind as in a drunken state, yet not drunk, but severe will be the torment of Allah.” (22.2)

 When the Prophet mentioned this, the people were so distressed (and afraid) that their faces got changed (in color)

Whereupon the Prophet said, “From Gog and Magog nine-hundred ninety-nine will be taken out and one from you.



You said:
"where was the other witnesses come on noboby have seen Muhammad so called Jibrill which was not witnessed or seen by any of Muhammad's comrades."

Answer:
It's up to people to say, what is clear is that the Prophet Muhammad was a human being who was appointed by Allah to be His Messenger.

Quran 97: 1 and Quran 44:1-3

Yes, it shows that the Prophet Muhammad was ordered to invite people to worship one God (Tawheed) as had been done by the Prophets before the Prophet Muhammad.

Quran 17:106

Yes, so that humans are easy to remember and memorize it, it is proven that up to now many Muslims have memorized the entire contents of the Qoran.

When the Prophet Muhammad was alive, many his companions who wrote and memorized it, it is evident that the Qoran is still the same as the original language throughout the world, while other books have undergone a change because the original language no longer exists.

When talking about the hadith, then there will be different opinions, this is almost the same as the current Gospel which of the four Gospels (Luke, Mark, Matthew, John) is not the same content.
Unlike the Qoran, although the translation is different but the original language still exists. This is a reference to distinguish which is the original word of Allah and which has been contaminated by human thought.
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How many times must I get it your mind the Quran was not the word of the GOD of Abraham Isaac Jacob and Isreal nor was it the word of Jibrill or your pagan god Allah cause he is dead in any way the Quran called poems stolen by Muhammad was Muhammad's own fabrication which Uthman fabricated and corrupted more thats why the Quran compilation was uncronologigal distorted and false.

Like you muslims believe in genies Ibliss was also a genie but can't you remember your fake prophet said genies can die also then Ibliss must have die by this time pure islamic silliness.

 Qur'an - Al-Jinn 72:1-14  

1.  Say (O Muhammad May Allah's peace and blessings be on him): "It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinns listened (to this Qur'ân). They said: 'Verily! We have heard a wonderful Recital (this Qur'ân)! 

This was a fabricated lie the Quran was written after Muhammad died so where the genies heard of this so called Quran don't tell it was the recital.

Some of the genies become muslims can you believe it and they can posses any kind of ainamals even snakes.

Stories of genies came from ancient Arab poets that Muhammad converted to a revelation of Allah Muhammad collected various Arab poems and recite it as words of Allah send to him by Jibrill the genie. 
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Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

How many times must I get it your mind the Quran was not the word of the GOD of Abraham Isaac Jacob and Isreal nor was it the word of Jibrill or your pagan god Allah cause he is dead in any way the Quran called poems stolen by Muhammad was Muhammad's own fabrication which Uthman fabricated and corrupted more thats why the Quran compilation was uncronologigal distorted and false.

Like you muslims believe in genies Ibliss was also a genie but can't you remember your fake prophet said genies can die also then Ibliss must have die by this time pure islamic silliness.

 Qur'an - Al-Jinn 72:1-14  

1.  Say (O Muhammad May Allah's peace and blessings be on him): "It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinns listened (to this Qur'ân). They said: 'Verily! We have heard a wonderful Recital (this Qur'ân)! 

This was a fabricated lie the Quran was written after Muhammad died so where the genies heard of this so called Quran don't tell it was the recital.

Some of the genies become muslims can you believe it and they can posses any kind of ainamals even snakes.

Stories of genies came from ancient Arab poets that Muhammad converted to a revelation of Allah Muhammad collected various Arab poems and recite it as words of Allah send to him by Jibrill the genie. 
(How many times must I get it your mind the Quran was not the word of the GOD of Abraham Isaac Jacob and Isreal nor was it the word of Jibrill or your pagan god Allah cause he is dead in any way the Quran called poems stolen by Muhammad was Muhammad's own fabrication which Uthman fabricated and corrupted more thats why the Quran compilation was uncronologigal distorted and false.)

Answer:
If the Qoran was made by the Prophet Muhammad, why in the Qoran there are verses relating to astronomy, embryos, biology etc. while the Prophet Muhammad was not an astronomer, and was not an obstetrician, nor was he a biologist, etc, but the verses could be verified by Scientists today, while such verses were not contained in the previous Books.

The Qoran will be maintained its authenticity until the end of the world according to the promise of Allah who has sent it down.
But I don't find such promise like that in other Books.

(Like you muslims believe in genies Ibliss was also a genie but can't you remember your fake prophet said genies can die also then Ibliss must have die by this time pure islamic silliness.)

Answer:
All the creatures that Allah created will have a time limit for their life (death) except Allah, the eternal God.

(Qur'an - Al-Jinn 72:1-14  

1.  Say (O Muhammad May Allah's peace and blessings be on him): "It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinns listened (to this Qur'ân). They said: 'Verily! We have heard a wonderful Recital (this Qur'ân)! )

(This was a fabricated lie the Quran was written after Muhammad died so where the genies heard of this so called Quran don't tell it was the recital.)

Answer:
If you want to know that the genie heard the verses of the Qoran, I can prove to you when I am reading the Qoran and when I am doing salah.

(Some of the genies become muslims can you believe it and they can posses any kind of ainamals even snakes.)

Answer:
Yes, there are jinn who are Muslims like those who doing salah with me. But most jinns are infidels.

(Stories of genies came from ancient Arab poets that Muhammad converted to a revelation of Allah Muhammad collected various Arab poems and recite it as words of Allah send to him by Jibrill the genie.)

Answer:
The Jinn was not only from ancient Arabia but from the time the Prophet Adam was created.

Please remember !
There is one thing that benefits to me from all of your statements in this forum because it will indirectly become the thoughts of those who take part in reading our debates in this forum, and Alhamdulillah there are some of them who become Muslims because Allah has given them guidance, even though you are trying to bring down Islamic teachings.
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