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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2009 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Believer,
 
Yes Muslims believe that God sent Holy texts to Moses and Jesus, however these texts were corrupted. Quoting passages from The Quran stating that God sent these texts does not negate the fact that the texts were corrupted.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
How can torah and the gospel be corrupted by few words or sevaral texts or the entire scriptures.
Because of the  quran the muslims believe everything in torah and the gospel is false or corrupt. 
 
Jouberar,
things read and understood wrong can not just mislead us they can also cause our doom, we believe.
 
Muslims, as myself don't believe that everything in Torah and the Gospel is false or corrupt. We do believe for sure that it has been altered by men and that is different than what you have said.
 
We believe, that God revealed them to His messangers, and those who followed and were in charge of their keeping twisted, deleted, added, altered parts that suite their interests and understanding, while the word of God in order to be pure was never to be treated as such. As it is said in the Bible, if one corrupts a word, corrupts the whole.
 
The result was a unsure situation where the pure word of God thus did not exist, so God revealed His pure word for the guidance of those who were still living and were to come till the end so they can be judged by it, the Quran.
 
Now, for me studying the Bible was an eye opener, I could not believe the degree of inconsistancies I was finding in it. And my conclusion was a confirmation that this book, the Bible, has been corrupted by men. It contradicts many issues, but the most important three: God, Jesus, and Salvation it is full of inconsistancies, if you are not aware of them, let me know and I will guide you through them.
 
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 19 March 2009 at 2:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2009 at 2:25pm
"How can torah and the gospel be corrupted by few words or sevaral texts or the entire scriptures.
Because of the  quran the muslims believe everything in torah and the gospel is false or corrupt." 
 
It really doesn't matter if there are 5 contradictions or 5 million, it is still contradictory and inconsistent.  Once men made Jesus into God who must be worshipped in order to receive salvation they corrupted the Word of God from the Bible:
 
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
 
"For this is what the Lord says — he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited — he says: `I am the Lord, and there is no other’ "
 
"See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; And there is no one who can deliver from My hand."
 
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. "
 
"You are My witnesses," declares the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. I, even I, am the Lord; And there is no savior besides Me."
 
From The Quran:
 
2:163 (Y. Ali) And your Allah is one Allah. There is no God but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
 
2:255 (Y. Ali) Allah. There is no God but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
 
40:65 (Y. Ali) He is the Living: There is no God but He: Call upon Him, giving Him sincere devotion. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!
 
59:23 (Y. Ali) Allah is He, than Whom there is no other God;- the Sovereign, the Holy one, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah. (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 19 March 2009 at 2:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JOUBERAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2009 at 8:53am
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Believer,
 
Yes Muslims believe that God sent Holy texts to Moses and Jesus, however these texts were corrupted. Quoting passages from The Quran stating that God sent these texts does not negate the fact that the texts were corrupted.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
How can torah and the gospel be corrupted by few words or sevaral texts or the entire scriptures.
Because of the  quran the muslims believe everything in torah and the gospel is false or corrupt. 
 
Jouberar,
things read and understood wrong can not just mislead us they can also cause our doom, we believe.
 
Muslims, as myself don't believe that everything in Torah and the Gospel is false or corrupt. We do believe for sure that it has been altered by men and that is different than what you have said.
 
We believe, that God revealed them to His messangers, and those who followed and were in charge of their keeping twisted, deleted, added, altered parts that suite their interests and understanding, while the word of God in order to be pure was never to be treated as such. As it is said in the Bible, if one corrupts a word, corrupts the whole.
 
The result was a unsure situation where the pure word of God thus did not exist, so God revealed His pure word for the guidance of those who were still living and were to come till the end so they can be judged by it, the Quran.
 
Now, for me studying the Bible was an eye opener, I could not believe the degree of inconsistancies I was finding in it. And my conclusion was a confirmation that this book, the Bible, has been corrupted by men. It contradicts many issues, but the most important three: God, Jesus, and Salvation it is full of inconsistancies, if you are not aware of them, let me know and I will guide you through them.
 
Hasan
 
 
Hasan answer this question for me are there false muslims and are there true muslims and how do you know the difference ? 


Edited by JOUBERAR - 20 March 2009 at 8:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JOUBERAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2009 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

"How can torah and the gospel be corrupted by few words or sevaral texts or the entire scriptures.
Because of the  quran the muslims believe everything in torah and the gospel is false or corrupt." 
 
It really doesn't matter if there are 5 contradictions or 5 million, it is still contradictory and inconsistent.  Once men made Jesus into God who must be worshipped in order to receive salvation they corrupted the Word of God from the Bible:
 
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
 
"For this is what the Lord says — he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited — he says: `I am the Lord, and there is no other’ "
 
"See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; And there is no one who can deliver from My hand."
 
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. "
 
"You are My witnesses," declares the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. I, even I, am the Lord; And there is no savior besides Me."
 
From The Quran:
 
2:163 (Y. Ali) And your Allah is one Allah. There is no God but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
 
2:255 (Y. Ali) Allah. There is no God but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
 
40:65 (Y. Ali) He is the Living: There is no God but He: Call upon Him, giving Him sincere devotion. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!
 
59:23 (Y. Ali) Allah is He, than Whom there is no other God;- the Sovereign, the Holy one, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah. (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.
 
You must do some beter research aunty contradiction doesn't gave you an excuse to drink from the devils cup 

This image of sitting "at the right hand of the Father" is influenced by Psalm 110 (1): "The Lord said to my lord: 'Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool.'" The image itself comes from the ancient world of kings and courts where the all-powerful king was surrounded by his ministers, with the most powerful and favored one sitting just to the right of the king. Hence, it means in this case that Jesus is one with the Father and shares in his sovereign power over the world and the cosmos.

 New Testament passages make clear that Jesus is "on the right hand of God" in the sense of having divine power, honor, glory, and preeminence. Jesus Himself said, "Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven" (Matthew 16:64). "Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God" (Luke 22:69)
 
 

Jesus was "by the right hand of God exalted" (Acts 2:33). He "is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him" (I Peter 1:22). God "raised him [Christ] from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is lamed, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come" Ephesians 1:20-21). "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1).

When Stephen was stoned, he "saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God" (Acts 7:55). He did not see two personages, but he saw the glory of God surrounding Jesus, who was revealed in the position of supreme power and authority. While on earth Jesus appeared to be an ordinary man and He lived as such with His disciples, but after His resurrection and ascension He appeared with visible glory and power as the almighty God. Although John had been Christ's closest associate while He was on earth and knew Him well, when He saw the ascended Christ in a vision he "fell at his feet as dead" (Revelation 1:17). Unlike Christ's typical appearance on earth, John saw Him in His divine glory.

Please Aunty go read the bible and will see Jesus is the Son of God not God himself but he has got full authority from God to judge the living and the dead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2009 at 12:46pm
"Please Aunty go read the bible and will see Jesus is the Son of God not God himself but he has got full authority from God to judge the living and the dead."
 
Perhaps you should correct the other Christians on this thread who are arguing that Jesus is God. Then, once all of the Christians are in agreement, come and discuss what Muslims believe....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JOUBERAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2009 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

"Please Aunty go read the bible and will see Jesus is the Son of God not God himself but he has got full authority from God to judge the living and the dead."
 
Perhaps you should correct the other Christians on this thread who are arguing that Jesus is God. Then, once all of the Christians are in agreement, come and discuss what Muslims believe....
 
 
They must do a thorough study of the bible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eaisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2009 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by semar semar wrote:

[QUOTE=JOUBERAR][QUOTE=Shasta'sAunt]

.........but Muslims do not call Jesus a messiah. He is a Prophet and an Apostle of God.

3:45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

 
The Quran can not be wrong.  That is correct! The Quran is definitely calling Jesus, "MESSIAH".  (Messiah is only the Greek word, "Christos" - meaning annointed one, deliverer)
 
That above quote is one of my favorite quotes in the Quran.   It is the reason why I kept reading. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2009 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

"Please Aunty go read the bible and will see Jesus is the Son of God not God himself but he has got full authority from God to judge the living and the dead."
 
Perhaps you should correct the other Christians on this thread who are arguing that Jesus is God. Then, once all of the Christians are in agreement, come and discuss what Muslims believe....
 
 
They must do a thorough study of the bible.
 
Then as a Christian isn't it your duty to correct your fellow Christians who are calling Jesus God?  I would think that would take precedence over us Muslims who don't believe Jesus is God.
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