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Similarities between Islam and Hinduism

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2005 at 6:56am
Hey Israfil, Salam to you!

People practice what they want to practice, and not what is preached.

Aparichithudu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2005 at 8:31am
Salam Ahmad!

I don't believe in kismat.  Kismat is Arabic and you will not find any equivalent word for kismat in any other Indian language except Hindi.

I think, I never alluded to such a view in any of my previous discussions with you. Kindly provide reference where I ever said such a thing.

Here is the reference, " To those who are muslims, I call them the enlightened ones..."

Regarding your quetion of knowing about Vedic religion, don't you think people should know the actual teachings of this religion as opposed to what they observe it through practices of zellionth of its adharants. Its only then, I think, when one learn to respect for others through knowledge.

No, I don't think someone has to preach or teach. Respect cannot come from knowledge. Respect comes from respecting and doing good and being good. Respect does not come from explanation. I may have a different view about God and religion. Thats not a cause of respect, cause of respect is goodness.

Quran (a verbatim word of infinite God)...

I have told you its a belief. I have nothing against that belief nor towards it.

...therefore acquire Shruti status...

I did not say Gita acquires Shruti status. If you want to, read Gita and you will yourself know why it is considered with such respect.

...but why would anybody not read Vedas themselves...

To read Vedas one should know Sanskrit. If I have to tell you why people don't know Sanskrit, the discussion shifts to politics.

and get rid of human sayings ( how much wizardary they may be) at once.

Unable to get what you mean?

Simpilicity in composition is, I think, too simplistic an answer for this question. Isn't it?

Contradictory statement.

...Vedas are, probably, based on anonymous belief. Anonymous begining with anonymous authorship doesn't imply "always" except through some sort of belief. Isn't it?

No one is insisting anyone to believe in the Vedas. Its not an obligation to believe in the Vedas. All Indian religions consider self as the best teacher. Books and sayings are just secondary detail.

Then, in that case smiriti have double attribute than shruti. Isn't it.

What attribute? A thing which is heard and written is much perfect than one which is heard, remembered and then written. One may forget what is remembered. Ain't I right?

But anonymous origin is not a very scholarly attribute.

Obviously.

It could be through your faith, that vedas are everything, but what about those who don't have such a faith. What would you tell them what is vedas?

Its their choice, isn't it?

Thats what I was insisting, when you consider Vedas to be books, then argument of infinity is illogical. Thats why in my initial post I said we were partially successful in writing Vedas.

Let me tell you, that you are probably the only one who has rightly pointed out these fallacies.

An exaggerated statement. Only one? I wonder how many of Hindus you have met to say such a thing.

Fallacies exists in practice of every religion, don't they?

"...The very prefix "Al" is a superlative adjective...."

When I said I was a beginner in Arabic, I was wrong. I should say that you are a beginner.

Hey, just kidding!

Remember when you say superlative, you imply a comparison with other beings, or with other times and places, while there is no being like unto God and He is independent of Time and Place.  Though Quran is allegorical, you find no allegory with respect to God in Quran. I think I need not say this to you.

Now coming to your comments upon vedas' authorship and analogy with copy righted text etc, it is knowledgeful to know that authorship is for authenticity of the material and not for copy rights. In all our scholarly research work, everything we quote from some where, we must need to provide the reference to source of our information. Authorship, thus becomes a very vital and important part of this referencing system. Without this reference, no info, no research work is considered reliable and hence categorized as faith based, if nothing else.

Though the question I ask now is off-topic, I want to ask it. Why do you consider authorship more important than the work? Of course it is better to know the author, but what if the author is forgotten? Then does the work become useless?

And I told you already, its not an obligation to believe in the Vedas even though every word of it can be proven.

Without arguing to explain your earlier statement rationally, I see you yet throwing more and more philosophical terms. Now I see you saying that vedas are not complete without arguing as what did you mean by infinite vedas, if not allegorically. Then when you say "what we have a minute part", does it imply rest is lost or does it imply that yet more has to come? I do see a similar fact mentioned on the Website that most of the vedas have been lost in the course of history but probably, you may like to comment on this lost aspect of vedas as well.

Brother, I have told you, Vedas are not books. I apologize again for not being able to explain clearly. But I use no allegories.

Secondly why do you think that glory of God will be restricted if its authorship is authenticated?

I did not say God's glory will be restricted if authorship is authenticated. This is interesting.  This is my post, "I apologize you again and again for not being able to explain about Vedas clearly. Vedas are not mere books. And Vedas are not complete yet. And they can never be completed for they are everything. What we have is only a minute part. It is not at all logical or rational to limit the glory of God. And I use no metaphor. Vedas are not allegorical."
Can you point me where I correlated God's glory and authorship?


Yeap, I think your quite clear in it. However, as always, now come few more questions through this line of explanation.

Do you think that even though a special language was invented (by anonymous inventor) specifically for these vedas, and yet it failed to encompass it? Either the author of vedas is not very mindful of his audeince or the inventor of the sanskrit has not done very remarkable invention? Isn't it logical to construe out of your explanation? or a more simplified explanation could be that the language Sanskrit has changed from the day of its inception to the present day and hence some of its words or alphabets (whatever) are no more recognizable. Anyway I leave it to you to explain what it could be.

Please read the entire post and then ask such questions. I have pleaded you not to drag me into another discussion about the Vedic language which is different from Sanskrit. If you really want to know, please go to some Hindu forum.

Can I know who invented or first spoke Arabic?

You are right when you give example of my name can't be pronounced by English people, but this is not a good example in the case of sanskrit vs Vedas. Simply because sanskrit was, as you say, specifically invented for vedas hence both the sound and the word are perfectly matched up which, ofcourse, is not the case in your example of my name.

You are right on the bull's eye.  Vedic language is different from Sanskrit because Vedic language has infinite alphabet. We know how to pronounce Sanskrit, but do not know the Vedic pronounciation. Now we only know the meanings, but pronounce them in Sanskrit.

Your skepticism regarding Sanskrit is illogical. Sanskrit is perfect whether you believe it or not.

Your statement could be true, as I understand it, if and only if, either the vedas are still being written without the updating of sanskrit or sanskrit has lost some of its letters or sounds due to historical errosion of languages.

I don't know anyone still writing Vedas. If you think Sanskrit is lost, its your belief. I have nothing to do with your belief.

... but then you have to provide evidence to support your point of view beyond your faithfull understanding.

To know the evidence, you have to first know Sanskrit, isn't it?

...but I consider such work to be more of a coincidental than consequential.

I said, "Most of them feel astonished when they find something greater in the East." If you find it astonishing, learn Sanskrit and then read the Vedas. You will find the authenticity yourself.

It just signify my wonder over your explanation of making Upanishads as same as Vedas.

You are talking as if you are a pioneer on those scriptures.

...why Gita is preferred over other shruti text when it comes to comparing it with Quran?

This may seem comparitive, but bear with me.
Vedas are everything, but Quran is not everything. Vedas are independent unlike Quran which is based on the belief that Quran is the word of God and to understand Quran one needs to know Sunah and Hadith. So one cannot compare both. Quran explains a path towards God, just like Gita.

Aparichithudu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2005 at 8:34am
Ahmad,

...how do we know this untill or unless we educate and learn this fact from others.

No amount of discussion will lead to true knowledge. Can I ask you why are you skeptical about such a simple truth?

Aparichithudu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2005 at 8:36am
Ahmad,

...how do we know this untill or unless we educate and learn this fact from others.

No amount of discussion will lead to true knowledge.  Can I know why you are so skeptical about the concept of Oneness of God in Hinduism?

Aparichithudu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2005 at 8:48am

Originally posted by The One The One wrote:

Ahmad,

...how do we know this untill or unless we educate and learn this fact from others.

No amount of discussion will lead to true knowledge.  Can I know why you are so skeptical about the concept of Oneness of God in Hinduism?

Aparichithudu.

Dear The One, the skeptism leads to misguidance to which I would always avoid. I would rather say that I am "unaware" of this concept in Hinduism through my previous interactions with this religion, however, through your discussions, hopefull to know about it with logic and wisdom. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2005 at 8:59am
Salam to Ahmad!

Even Muslims in India are unaware about this concept but still they do not consider us as kafirs or mukshirs. Indian Muslims love their religion, but that does not mean that they hate us Hindus.

Hope you have understood something from my long posts.

Aparichithudu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2005 at 12:32pm

My bro The One,

First of all, for hate has nothing to do with Mushriks, at all. It is just a term for all those who don't believe in the oneness of Allah. That is it. No derogatary used in this term. Personally, I consider them mostly ignorant of message of Allah and hence have sympathy for them than ridiculing. This is the main reason for our discussion to know more about Hinduism, beyond my sterotype knowledge, and let them know about Islam, as much as I can, only if they want to.

Now coming to your our long passages, though your replies are aptly posted, but somehow they don't provide any depth. They seems to be more of digital 0 or 1 kind of replies. For a simple info I have to repeat that question 3 or 4 times and only then some meaniful info is obtained. Just as an example of Vedas, initially there was hardly a cursory mention of vedic language in your post and only after 3 to 4 posts, repeating the same questions, one way or the other, you tell me that the original language of Vedas is not Sanskirt (even though you alluded that it was specifically invented for them) but the Vedic language. Why so much hesitation my bro, that sometime, I feel kind of frustrated? Anyhow, so much so far and so good. Let us continue but this time with smaller area of discussion to remain focus.

Coming to one of your important question regarding author's name for a book vs the contents of the book. There are different situations in which one is relatively more important over the other. For example, if a book contains physical sciences, then the author's name is relatively less important, if not known, than the contents, but nevertheless, this anonymouse status of the book would ever remain with the contents where ever the contents are referred. However, once it comes to faith related subject of the contents, the authorship of the book is extremely important; otherwise on whom someone can put faith onto? Since I believed in Prophet Mohammad, hence believed in the Quran. Without having faith in Mohammad, faith in Quran can never be established. Isn't it logical?

Same way authorship of Vedas is extremely important. Who were those Rishis who recieved the guidance from our The only Lord, Allah? Is it not possible that people, after the death of that particular Rishi to whom guidance in the form of a particular Veda was recieved, might have changed it? This also leads to other important questions of preservation of vedas in their original contents? What was this system prior to writing them down from Oral narrations? Does anyone authentically know such a system ever existed? So, in a nut shell, all this info is highly essential for anyone (more for hindus themselves that for any outsider) to put his faith on it. As you had referred to me to Vedic Mathematics, on my search, I found out that not all vedic literature is divine, but from the ancient great mathematicans and scientists of the land of Bharat. Though, I must acknowledge the great work done by these great minds of their time, but this has little to do with divine knowledge. It is thence, that I understood as what did you mean by "vedas are everything" and "vedas are infinite" etc etc. Why didn't you tell me this on the first place? Why did you make it appear like a mission impossible by referring me to learn Sansikret to even open the book? I don't know?  However, I do know that this is an information age, the old age books of wisdom are no more properitary collection of a select few especially once a birds eyeveiw can be obtained through the translations. Ofcourse for the mastery of the subject, one has to learn the original language but not for general understanding of it.

One more question and that is On the issue of Krishana, if you don't consider him God, then what do you say about Gita? Do you really think its not a myth (atleast the way it was narrated) but a fact?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2005 at 9:23am
Salam Ahmad!

I cannot explain does not mean that their is no explanation.

This is an Islamic forum and if you want to know about Hinduism you have to go to a Hindu forum. This is logical.  You cannot blame me of not answering you.  I have done what I can do.  I have to be in the limits in this forum.

...otherwise on whom someone can put faith onto?

My religion is not based on dogmas.  Nor it is based on books.  It is based on pure reason. God is One for everyone.  If I want anything I will approach God directly.  No need of any medium between me and God.  My religion teaches faith in faith itself.

Since I believed in Prophet Mohammad, hence believed in the Quran. Without having faith in Mohammad, faith in Quran can never be established. Isn't it logical?

I want to know somethings here.  What if Mohammad were forgotten just like we don't have the names of 124000 other prophets?  Then what will be the situation of faith in Quran?  And what if we do really have previous lives, i.e., rebirth of the soul, and it were proved? Then does the faith cease?

...might have changed it?

When their is no need of a book or anything else, I don't even bother if everything of it is changed or even lost.

So, in a nut shell, all this info is highly essential for anyone (more for hindus themselves that for any outsider) to put his faith on it.

Most of the Hindus don't know Sanskrit and they don't even know what is written in the Vedas.  So conclude whatever you want to conclude.

One more question and that is On the issue of Krishana, if you don't consider him God, then what do you say about Gita?

Gita is exclusive of Krishna being man or God.  Gita is not at all allegorical and it does not contain any dogmas.  So Krishna becomes less important than Gita.

Do you really think its not a myth (atleast the way it was narrated) but a fact?

Even if the historicity of the whole thing is proved to be absolutely false today, it will not in the least be any loss to us.  I am more bothered about the ideals.  Have a look at the Gita and you will know what I mean.

Aparichithudu.
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