7 thunders of the Book of Revelation

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

truthnowcome View Drop Down

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 05 April 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1045

Post Options

Post Reply

Quote truthnowcome

Report Post

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 01 March 2008 at 10:06pm

Christian�s Scholars: Commentary on The Book of Revelation 8-11

Rev 10, Clip:

�A small scroll open�. There must be no danger of mistaking this scroll for the one sealed with seven seals so it is said to be a comparatively �small� one�.

10.3c-4 �The seven thunders uttered their voices, and when the seven thunders uttered their voices I was about to write, and I heard a voice from Heaven saying, �Seal up the things which the seven thunders uttered and do not write them�.�

It is clear from this verse that John has been recording his visions as he saw them, but this time he is told to desist. In Isaiah 29.11 God declares Israel to be in a spirit of deep sleep so that even their eyes, the prophets, are �closed�. All vision has become to them as the words of a scroll that is sealed, that none can understand. Here the world is seen to be in the same state. Their state is such that they will not listen to what the thunders say, so the words of the thunders are sealed. God will not speak to those who will not hear.

I have highlight it.

TNC

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!

truthnowcome View Drop Down

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 05 April 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1045

Post Options

Post Reply

Quote truthnowcome

Report Post

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 28 February 2008 at 10:39pm

Peace to all!

Angel, are you there? I didn�t see you reply to me. However, I will proceed with the explanation of Revelation 10. But first, we have to look at what the Christian�s Scholar has to say.

Click on this link: How can I understand the Book of Revelation?

This is a clip: A simple outline for the Book of Revelation is found in Revelation 1:19. In the first chapter, the risen and exalted Christ is speaking to John. Christ tells John to "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." The things John had already seen are recorded in chapter 1. The "things which are" (that were present in John's day) are recorded in chapters 2-3 (the letters to the churches). The �things that will take place" (future things) are recorded in chapters 4-22.

The �things that will take place" (future things) are recorded in chapters 4-22.

Now, you renember what Jesus (S) said about the Comforter in Heaven with the Father? He said: �I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now�he will guide you into all truth... (John.16:12-13)

The Book of Revelation chapter 10 mentioned the coming of another Book which John did not wrote and coming of that book then "all the truth will reveal".

It is mentioned: Rev.1-And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven. (V.1)

Another Mighty Angel: Jesus (pubh) is not another mighty angel; it is Gabriel (s) the messenger of Allah who brought the message to and from Allah.

2-3: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth. And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voice. (V.2-3)

4-And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, �I was about to write�: and I heard a voice from haven saying unto, seal up those things which the seven thunder utters, �and write them not�. (Rev.10:4)

The angel brought the little book and John was order not to write down the message in that book, because the time was not right. So it is not the bible, because the bible is a written book and it {the bible} is telling us about another book. Which book is that?

7-But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound: the mystery of God should finish as he declared to his servants the prophets. (Rev.10:7)

In the days when this little book shall reveal all the mystery (all the truth) of God will finish (revealed).The book was never written according to John: �seal up those things�and write them not.�

�Begin to sound� mean: �revealing� In the days when this little book shall reveal �all the mystery� (That is: �all the truth�) of God will finish (revealed, no more mystery) as he declared to his servants the prophets.

And this is what Jesus (pbuh) said: �I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now�he will guide you into all truth... (John.16:12-13)

Therefore the Spirit of Truth which is the Comforter would have to bring this little book which contains all the truth.

And in 10:2-4 it says: �John was about to write�� So when this Book will reveal �some one� will have to be there to �write the message down.� Allah has revealed to Muhamed (pbuh):

��And We have sent down to thee (O Muhamed) the book (the Qur�an) explaining �all things�, a guide, a mercy, and Glad Tiding to Muslims.� (Q.16:89)

This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. (Q.5:3)

Do not mistake this Book for the one that mentioned in Rev.5:1 �� A Book written within and on the back side, sealed with seven seals.� That Book is already written and every time a seal open a certain event takes place. exa:

Rev.6:1-2�when the lamb opened one of the seal�behold a white horse: he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth �conquering,� and to �conquer.�

The advent of Muhammad (pbuh): Habakkuk. 3:16�when he (The Holy one from Mount Paran) cometh up unto the people, he will invade them with his troops.

Rev. 6:7-8 And when he had open the forth seal�a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him, And power was given unto him over the forth part of the earth (New world: the west), to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

On the other hand the one in Rev.10:2-4, John was about to write and he heard a voice from heaven saying, �Seal up those thing�and write them not.� So when this Book will reveal some one will have to be there to write it down.

10-And I (John) took the little book out of the angel�s hand, and eat it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. (Rev.10:10)

We know that John did not eat the book, he read the book and the truth was sweet but practicing the law was bitter.

11-And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many people, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Rev.10:11)

Why prophesy again? Because he had already went, so he has to go back again to inform them about the coming of the universal book that he did not wrote.

Allah (S) said: We have not sent thee but as a (universal messenger) to all mankind�but most of mankind knew not. (Q.34:38)

REVELATION 14

Coming of the universal book:

It is mentioned in the bible: �And I saw another angel fly in the midst of haven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. Saying with aloud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come.� (Rev.14:6-7)

The everlasting gospel was yet to come; Jesus (pubh) gospel could not be for all time! Jesus (pubh) already on earth with a gospel, he could not be the �another angel� with everlasting gospel, the everlasting Gospel is the Qur�an. Revelation 10:1-11: �another angel� with a �little book� which John did not wrote but is yet to come.

Say, the Holy Spirit (Angel Gabriel) has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a guide, and Glad Tidings to Muslims. (Q.16:102)

A book, whereof the verses are explained in detail-A Qur�an in Arabic, for people who understand-Giving Good News and admonition: yet most of them turn away, and so they hear not. (Q.41:3-4)

Without doubt it is (announced) in the reveled books (Torah, Gospel) of former people. (Q.26:196)

And this is a book which We have sent down, bringing blessing and conforming (the revelation) which came before it. (Q.6:92)

�it is no less than a Message for all creatures (mankind and jinn). (Q.12:104)

�so fear Allah and obey me. (Q.3:50)

O ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should fear, and die not except in a state of Islam. (Q.3:102)

And glorify Him morning and evening. (Q.33:42)

Blessed is He who sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) to His Servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures. (Q.25:1)

What Revelation 14-7 says? �Fear God and Give Glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come� Not the Day of Judgment, the Criterion: the standard way of judgment between right and wrong.

And when he (the Comforter) is come he will reprove the world of sin, and righteous, and �judgment.� (John.16:8)

Adding further Jesus (pbuh) is saying that, the Comforter will bring �Judgment� to the world (Gentiles). So the Comforter has to be a �person� according to Isaiah 42:1-4

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spirit upon �him: he' shall bring forth judgment to the Gentile.�

�here are they that keep the commandment of God, and the faith of Jesus�Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord henceforth (after the coming of the Qur�an/Al-Furqan: Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) yea, said the Spirit, that they may rest from their labor; and their work do fallow them. (Rev.14:12-13)

Allah (S) said: �Think not of those who are slain in Allah�s way as dead. Nay, they live, finding there sustenance in their Lord�The (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.� (Q.3:169-1700)

Revelation 10 Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on the Bible

Revelation 14 Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on the Bible

I will show you from the bible who recieved that "seal book" later, Inshallah.

truthnowcome

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!

truthnowcome View Drop Down

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 05 April 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1045

Post Options

Post Reply

Quote truthnowcome

Report Post

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 25 February 2008 at 7:24pm

All Praises are for Allah (S).

Salaam to All!

Angel, to discuss that we first have to look at the Comforter because Jesus (pubh) said: �I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but what he hears.� (John.16:12-13)

And Revelation 10 mentioned of a seal book which John did not wrote and coming of that book then "all the truth will reveal."

So we have to find out who in the Comforter. In John 14:26 it is mentioned: �Butt the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost...� Here, the bible we understand that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. However, in 1John.2:1 it read: �...we have an ADVOCATE with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous.� Jesus was also call Comforter. The word used there for both is �Paracletos� which translated as Comforter, Advocate, ect. So we have now, Jesus (S) as a �Comforter� and the Holy Spirit as the �Comforter� that is two now.!

Now, let�s look at John 14:16-17. Jesus (S) said in 14:16-17 ��I will pray to the father, and he shall give you "ANOTHER" Comforter (Paracletos: advocate, Comforter, Councillor) that he may abide with you for ever. Even the spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.

In this verse, the key word is "ANOTHER". If something is already with you how can we call it �ANOTHER� when it is already with you? As the verse continues it read: �Even the spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.

You see that? It said: �for he dwelleth with you� meaning It�s already with them. So �Another Comforter� here is not the Spirit of Truth that is already with them, it is referring to someone that is not there. Jesus (S) himself is a Comforter: 1John.2:1 �...we have an ADVOCATE with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous.� And he is telling them about another one. What does another mean? It cannot be the same thing; it has to be another like the same thing. Jesus (pbuh) is the �first� Comforter; then the �other�: The one to follow must be of �like nature� or we can say, the �Another Comforter� like Jesus (S) who is a Comforter and the Comforter which �dwelleth with them and shall be in them� it was two personalities.

But the point Christians are missing here is, where the �Another Comforter� would come from.

Jesus (S), said: ��I will pray to the father, and he shall give you "Another Comforter�� They miss this very important point: �I will pray to the father, and �he� shall give you.� This Comforter has to come from the �Father� Jesus (S) conformed it in (John 16:7): �Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I GO for if I GO NOT AWAY, the Comforter WILL NOT COME unto you, but if I depart, I will send him unto you.� (John 16:7)

This would mean that the comforter is with the Father in Heaven and when he goes to the Father in Heaven he will send him. We cannot say Jesus (S) will send himself, which is foolish because Jesus (S) is not there with the Father in Heaven when he was talking to the disciples. The �Another Comforter� is in Heaven with the Father, Jesus (S) mentioned it in John 3:13: �And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is �IN� heaven.�

Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of man "ON" earth and he spoke about another Son of man which is "IN" heaven.

The same thing he said in John 14:16-17 ��I will pray to the father, and he shall give you "ANOTHER" Comforter� Even the spirit of truth� but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.

Jesus (S) is talking about �another comforter� who is �with the Father in Heaven� and also the �Holy Spirit� which is �with the disciple on earth� (he dwelleth with you)

The �condition� is, when �he goes to the Father in Heaven he will send him� because the �Another Comforter� is in Heaven at that time with the Father,

In John chapter 20:21-22, the disciple received the Holy Ghost �before� Jesus (pbuh) left: ...As my father hath sent me, even so I send you (the disciple) And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said unto them, RECEIVED YE THE HOLY GHOST. (John.20:21-22). And that is the one that Jesus mentioned when he said: �Even the spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.

If the Spirit of truth is not in them but dwelleth with them (the disciple), then where is the spirit of truth? John chapter one verse thirty-two read, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven..., and abode upon him."

Jesus (pbuh) was a comforter (1John.2:1 ) with the spirit of truth moving in him, so he dwelleth with them (the disciple) and shall be in them, which they received when Jesus (pbuh) BREATHED on them in (John.20:21-22).

So we have the one that was �in Jesus (S)� and the one that was �with the Father in heaven.� Jesus (S) mentioned it in John 3:13: �And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is �IN� heaven.�

But how will he abide with us forever? Let Jesus (S) tells us:

In Luke, Chapter sixteen, Jesus (S) tells us the story of the �rich man, Poor man.� At death both find themselves at opposite ends � one in Heaven and one in Hell. The rich man simmering in Hell cries to Father Abraham to send the beggar (Lazarus) to slake his thirst. But when every plea fails, he, ask a last favor, requesting that Father Abraham send the beggar to earth to warn his living brother against their impending doom if they heeded not the warning of God.

But Abraham said, �If they (those still alive on earth) hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (To warn them) Luke 16:31

Jesus uttered the above parable centuries after the demise of the prophets of Israel Jeremiah, Hosea, etc and over thirteen hundred years after Moses (S). The Pharisees at that time of Jesus (S) and we today can still listen to �Moses and the Prophets.� For they are alive still alive, and with us here today in their teaching and so was Muhammad (S) the �Another Comforter� (Nothing new! Jesus said it.)

The disciple John knew of him, he conforms that in 1John.4:1 �Beloved, believe not every SPIRIT, but try the SPIRITS whether they are of God because many false PROPHETS are gone out into the world.� (1John.4:1)

John is saying you must look for a PROPHET with the SPIRIT of TRUTH moving in him. Also in John 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of � judgment:�

Jesus (pbuh) is saying that, the Comforter will bring �Judgment� to the world (Gentiles). So the Comforter has to be a �person� according to Isaiah 42:1 �Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spirit upon �him: he� shall bring forth �judgment to the Gentile.��

(I have add this link for more on Isaiah 42: Isaiah 42 Judgment onto the Gentile)

That is the reason why the disciple John was looking for a Prophet with a Spirit in 1John.4:1 �Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirits whether they are of God because many false Prophets are gone out into the world.� And in John: 16:12 it says: �I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, "he will guide you into all truth:" for he shall not speak of himself; "but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:" and he will show you things to come.

"but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:"

If anyone says he is in them and speaks to them then he is that Prophet because John was looking for a Prophet with a Spirit.

The Holy Qur�an has made that claim:

Verily this is a revelation from the Lord of the world:

With it came down the SPIRIT OF FAITH and TRUTH (Ruh-ul-Amin).

To thy heart. (Q.26:192-194)

The Prophet (pbuh) of Islam was known as the Al-Amin (the Faithful and truthful one).

Therein come down the angels and the (Ruh) Spirit by Allah�s permission, on every errand. (Q.97:4)

The angels and the Spirit [Ruh-ul-Qudus: Gabriel (Q.16:102); Ruh-ul-Amin: to the Al-Amim: Muhammad (pbuh).

Allah {S} said: "We have not sent thee but as a (universal Messenger) to "ALL" mankind, giving glad tiding and warn them (against sin), but most of mankind know not. (Q.34:28)

And He said: "Without doubt it is (announced) in the revealed book [Taura (Torah) and the Injil (Gospel) of former peoples]." (Q.26:192-196)

If you have a clear understanding of what I have established here then I will proceed to revelation 10, Inshallah.

TNC.

Edited by truthnowcome

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!

Angel

Senior Member
Senior Member