Jesus dying for our sins |
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believer
Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397 |
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The prodigal son. All human bodies die but our souls live. Our souls live either in hell - away from GOD or in heaven - with GOD. The human body of Jesus died. 1 Peter 318 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.One can return to GOD but for how long? |
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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Nur_Ilahi
Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1031 |
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16 Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. 17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. 18. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah." 19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a pure son. 20. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" 21. He said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us'. It is a matter (so) decreed." 22. So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. 23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree. She cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten!" 24. But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; 25. "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. 26. "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being'" 27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly a strange thing has thou brought! 28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" 29. But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" 30. He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; 31. "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; 32. "(He hath made me) kind to my mother, and not overbearing or unblest; 33. "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! 34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. 35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. 36. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.
The Holy Quran - Surah Maryam. |
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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believer
Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397 |
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"the gift of a pure son" - does this mean sinless? 17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. This implies that there was actual intercourse between the angel appearing as man in all respects!! Do you believe that Jesus is half angel? 21. He said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us'. It is a matter (so) decreed." Why do you not believe that Jesus is the Son of GOD, that at least half of Him was GOD? With Adam GOD used only dust, so Adam was created. Mary conceived Jesus through the action of one of the substances of GOD that is the Holy Spirit. |
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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Nur_Ilahi
Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1031 |
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This implies that there was actual intercourse between the angel appearing as man in all respects!! Do you believe that Jesus is half angel? My dear Believer, There are many stories about the Angel coming to meet Muhammad bringing verses of the AlQuran or teaching him what Muhamamd ought to know. The Angel sometimes came in the form of a man. So this was another example of the Angel who came to relay the message from God to Maryam. Angels are created by Allah naturally obedient. Satan the opposite but we human have both characteristics. If we can overcome our satanic characteristics we can become better than an angel. And of course Jesus is not half angel. Jesus was human. The son that came out of a sufi woman Maryam (may Allah shower her blessings). Actually the creation of Adam was more wonderful than the creation of Jesus. From nothing, Allah created Adam, without father without mother. While Jesus, he still has a mother, which is quite natural. The Holy Spirit was just the Angel, who was just doing his job of relaying messages from God to humankind. He had no power of creating things. The absolute power belongs to the Creator - Allah Al-Khaliq. I had quoted versus of the Al-Quran regarding the birth of Jesus. Can you please quote verses of the bible concerning the birth of Jesus? Thank you in advance. Salam. |
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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martha
Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1140 |
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Nur_Ilahi and believer, Hope you dont mind me writing the verses from the Bible concerning the birth of Jesus. Believer, there are other scriptures too. Maybe you can share them with us? St Matthew 1 18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise(in this way): when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19. Then Joseph her husband, being just a man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily (1) 20. But while he thought on these things;behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus:for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,(2) saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is,God with us. 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son:and he called his name Jesus. 1. He desired to release or divorce her secretly 2. Isaiah 7:14 In chapter 2 of Matthew we read 'Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him' NB: The Wise men of the east. It is not recorded how many there were, but common belief is that there were three. They were not ordinary men, but were spiritually sensitive and knowledgable to search out Jesus. The customary identification of them as astrologers is a gross misrepresentation. They were possibly prophets that were sent on a divine errand. They were able to see the star when others could not, they knew it's meaning and brought gold, frankincense and myrrh, and they were warned by God to return to their home by a safe route. Their knowledge was precise and accurate. They returned to their people(somewhere east of Palestine) to bear witness that Jesus, King Immanuel had been born, as prophesied. |
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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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poga
Senior Member Joined: 03 January 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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ASSALAMUALAIKUM this christian believe in second coming of Jesus but how many Muslim believe Jesus will come to the earth four times |
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
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Poga, jesuswillreturn.com this website details the Muslim view on the second coming by an Islamic Scholar.
As for Jesus's death on the Cross. The death is not as important as the Garden. In the Garden he took upon himself the sins of the world. Jesus in the Mormon Church is our Eldest Brother. We are all children of God. And as the Eldest Brother he is our protector and intercessor with Heavenly Father. Whereas, Satan is our jealous brother who wants to see us in the same misery that he suffers for his disobedience. To explain the importance of the Atonement, I post the explanation from our Bible Dictionary. Now, we differ from Traditional Christians on the nature of Christ. So be aware, the other Christians are not going to agree with me in whole on this. The word describes the setting �at one� of those who have been estranged, and denotes the reconciliation of man to God. Sin is the cause of the estrangement, and therefore the purpose of atonement is to correct or overcome the consequences of sin. From the time of Adam to the death of Jesus Christ, true believers were instructed to offer animal sacrifices to the Lord. These sacrifices were symbolic of the forthcoming death of Jesus Christ, and were done by faith in him (Moses 5: 5-8). Jesus Christ, as the Only Begotten Son of God and the only sinless person to live on this earth, was the only one capable of making an atonement for mankind. By his selection and foreordination in the Grand Council before the world was formed, his divine Sonship, his sinless life, the shedding of his blood in the garden of Gethsemane, his death on the cross and subsequent bodily resurrection from the grave, he made a perfect atonement for all mankind. All are covered unconditionally as pertaining to the fall of Adam. Hence, all shall rise from the dead with immortal bodies, because of Jesus� atonement. �For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive� (1 Cor. 15: 22), and all little children are innocent at birth. The atonement is conditional, however, so far as each person�s individual sins are concerned, and touches every one to the degree that he has faith in Jesus Christ, repents of his sins, and obeys the gospel. The services of the Day of Atonement foreshadowed the atoning work of Christ (Lev. 4; Lev. 23: 26-32; Heb. 9). The scriptures point out that no law, ordinance, or sacrifice would be satisfactory if it were not for the atonement of Jesus Christ (Heb. 10: 1-9; 2 Ne. 9: 5-24; Mosiah 13: 27-32). Sin is lawlessness (1 Jn. 3: 4); it is a refusal on men�s part to submit to the law of God (Rom. 8: 7). By transgression man loses control over his own will and becomes the slave of sin (Rom. 7: 14), and so incurs the penalty of spiritual death, which is alienation from God (Rom. 6: 23). The atonement of Jesus Christ redeems all mankind from the fall of Adam and causes all to be answerable for their own manner of life. This means of atonement is provided by the Father (John 3: 16-17), and is offered in the life and person of his Son, Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5: 19). When Adam sinned, he brought mortality into the world. When Jesus died, he brought back the immortality. Adam shut the door, Jesus was the key to open it back up. All men are responsible for their own sins. Just because Jesus died to restore our connection with God, does not mean free reign to sin without consequence. He only made it possible for us to repent and gave us a perfect example to model our lives. When I find myself sinning, I must remind myself of the suffering Jesus underwent in the Garden. He suffered for each sin. My sins literally caused him pain. Now, isn't that a powerful deterrent to sin, to know that every time you wrong, you caused pain to your brother? Its not some magic pixie dust to use to excuse bad behavior. Too many Muslims (and too many Chrisitans) think that being saved in Christ is just saying "I believe Jesus died for my sins" and done. Its not like that. The Atonement is far more than that. Man is not held accountable for the sin of Adam, he is however mortal because of it. Jesus restored the immortality of the spirit and allowed for us to return to Heavenly Father. But, it doesn't get us there if we don't do our part. |
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Angel
Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Status: Offline Points: 6641 |
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what are you talking about. No muslim believes Jesus will come to the earth 4 times. Christians believe Jesus will return again, as said second coming. Muslims also believe that he will return, being raised up and then return when the time is right. Both groups believes Jesus will return once more NOT 4 times for muslims. Where do you get this from? p.s: the last didn't make sense, so had to fix it Edited by Angel |
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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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