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Terrorist V Terrorism

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Salams_wife View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Salams_wife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2007 at 2:32pm

Brother Iftikhar, I understood your post and thought it made a lot of sense.  Anything having to do with Islam has been attacked and made things difficult for good muslims to participate in gatherings at set places.  I think Islamic schools are a great idea and nothing should be wrong with them.  We have many various religious schools here in the US and students often do well in them.  I have noticed more and more Islamic schools popping up in the US and of course they must meet certain educational requirements, but they also include the Islamic teachings many good muslim parents would want their children to know.

Martha, I think they are not addressing your comments because it is hard to see how they relate to the posting.  I am really having a hard time understand how your points correspond, though I am happy to hear you find racism to not be a problem in the UK. 

You seem to be combative against his ideas because he is concerned about racism, but you didn't address most of the examples he gave and instead started your own.  I know you sound angry but I really wish you would elaborate so I can understand what he said that has upset you.

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Whisper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2007 at 3:32pm

And Whisper, you know there are many muslims here who advocate Shariah law.

Must be some absolutely educationless idiots who do that. I haven't come across any in my circle at all. The British system is far better than any Islamic welfare system practised, anywhere in prevalent times.

You already know that the British public did not want Blair to invade Iraq or Afghanistan, and it's not our fault that the fanatical muslim works underground to breed the suicide bomber.

Ever heard of the cause and effect theory? If the great Brit Public were so against these wars, would they surrender Blair for a War Crimes Trial, which can be instituted in Spain under a special Spanish Law?

No, they would not just because BRITISHNESS sets in!

Your point on so many Muslims in the Parliament: Are they there as some charitable deed of the Brits?

OR are they elected as reps - of their own communities? and in their own steam in a free for all contest?

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martha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2007 at 3:46pm

My point sister is simple really.

I did reply to his questions. How plain can I say it?

There are muslim schools. There are muslim politicians. Teachers are not 'chicken racists'. etc etc etc

Brother Iftikars first post was stating otherwise, so I corrected him. I certainly am not going to write all my comments again. But maybe you can read my posts.

Sister, of course I get fed up with narrow minded people who dont see the full picture. Maybe he just wont admit to all the good things that Britain does for muslims. His initial comments are shameful and untrue. Only in his second post did he attempt to explain better. And again I gave him the same reply. But people must always see the full picture, not just give their own blinkered ideas.  I am waiting for him to tell me that what I have stated is untrue, only this. But he hasnt replied yet. I am a very broadminded person. But this is the UK not 'Little Pakistan'.

Sister, if I went to Pakistan then I would not dream of critisising Pakistan. I would fit in and adapt to their way of life. Not compromise on muslim beliefs, I dont mean that. But for goodness sake. Islam teaches us to respect the country we live in, to live its laws. Not to change it because we dont like it! I have explained enough. I think you miss my point altogether.

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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martha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2007 at 3:48pm

Sister,

You live in the US right? If I came there and starting demanding this and that, wouldnt you get upset?

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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martha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2007 at 4:11pm

Whisper,

You know full well I have no problem with any muslim here achieving whatever he chooses. Including muslim politicians voted in by the asian communities.

I am not narrowminded in the least. You also know I am not racist. You chose to accept that or not. I am all for all communities to come together, instead of being separate entities. If I didnt care about it I wouldnt bother to reply. But it seems increasingly obvious that British are expected to forgo their own identity for the sake of other cultures here.

I have not given false information regarding muslim schools, Islam being taught in British schools, Urdu being introduced into the national curriculam. These are all good things. But it must be give and take from all sides. There is still much to do for all people here. And the barriers must be removed, and patience must be borne by all for any change to succeed. Surely this is the way forward. Errors must be recognised on all sides for this to happen however.

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Salams_wife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2007 at 6:26pm

I understand what you are saying, Martha, about the schools shouldn't have to change to suit muslim needs if it is a public school.  In this I do agree with you.  One of the problems that was pointed out was that many Islamic schools are getting branded as being supported by terrorists.  This creates problems for the school and the students.  It also hit headlines here in the United States when a teacher was banned from teaching due to the fact she covered her face as part of her religious principles.  This does create a hostile environment.  If the UK doesn't want to teach about Islam in public schools than that is its right.  I just don't think it is fair to make things difficult for the Islamic schools where muslim parents prefer to send their kids so they will get that education.

Now, I can't say what your laws are in regards to all this.  One of the reasons the USA was created was to have religious freedom.  I don't know if you all have written that into your laws or not, as I have not studied your laws.  I just know it is one of the reasons we fled your country and created ours.  So, here in the USA, I am all for people being able to practice their religion and there being religious tolerance since that is what this country was founded on.  It also means if they want to do Christian things than they should.  I don't ask for just muslim rights to practice openly.  I ask it for everyone of all religions.  If people want to hang Christmas decorations at the airport than that is their business.  It is a predominantly Christian country and muslims here have not complained about it (although a Jewish guy did).  If they want to have moments of silence at school so kids can pray to whoever they pray to, then I am all for that too.  No one complains when convenience store owners keep a statue of Buda or that he leaves candy bar sacrifices for it in plain sight inside his store. 

I think the problem is the west is pushing all religion away instead of embracing it and making it more open.  Why should we spend so much time trying to hide religion so we don't offend someone's sensibilities?  Does that really help anyone?

As for languages, that is up to the school and the demographics of the school.  If there are only 2 students from a Urdu speaking country then it probably isn't worth the trouble of making a class.  Yet, most schools in the United States offer Spanish and some make it mandatory because of the large hispanic population here.  You should only offer what is an obvious need by your students for the location of each particular school (this is an opinion, I still don't know your laws).

Also, I think he did go a little to far with the "chicken racist" comment and understand your being upset for that.  Yet what harm is there in encouraging more teachers of different faiths in schools instead of making them outsiders?



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Whisper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2007 at 11:45pm

Martha, I think they are not addressing your comments because it is hard to see how they relate to the posting.

Salaam por la mujer de Salam, You have hit the nail on its head. Our friend is not joining in the debate, but trying to drive the debate to points that suit her.

I am really having a hard time understand how your points correspond, though I am happy to hear you find racism to not be a problem in the UK. 

Sis, join the club or go and make the 3rd cup of tea, it's early morning in Spain and I am going to make one because our friends lines spin far more riddles than they are supposed to solve.

If racism weren't a problem in the UK, our friend would have spent so much of defensive energy in painting the situation to be otherwise.

My parents were under the illusion that they could educate me, they sent me to school in England. I have spent almost all my summers in England since then. I have served at least one term on the Slough Race Relations Council. I was selected to contest as the First (recent) Asian MPs from Slough, Eton and Windsor by the Conservatives.

I have had to mention these points simply to break our friends impression that if all non-English, in her country, are just a bit from 'ere or just there, which I agree, mostly they are from the dodgy group that her husband seems to belong to.

Brits are a fine lot on the whole, but to insists that they are not the best supporters of their phobia of anything that's not British is either gross injustice or, at best, a sheepish attempt at masking the reality. This phobia graduates into their Racial Prejudice!

The Brits are also great masters of masking the reality. Somehow, I have no idea at all for what reasons, but they don't like to face the reality. They would spend an age sittining on the fence of may be, may be not, perhaps you are right, could be I am wrong, plus is not minus and minus is not plus and all manners of such expressions.

The truth doesn't seem to dawn on them like their days, most are just a wee wrose than their nights! 

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Whisper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2007 at 12:39am

Whisper,

You know full well I have no problem with any muslim here achieving whatever he chooses. Including muslim politicians voted in by the asian communities.

I was reponding to you comment, which caste the impression that these politicians had been placed in the parliament as a result of some Charitable British act and they were put there by their constituents!!!

I am not narrowminded in the least. You also know I am not racist.

You will never catch me thinking or even Whispering otherwise.

Our friend has been trying to make one simple point in his post that you seem to have hijacked is that Islamophobia is being spun and promoted in Great Britian. There are many reasons for this going on.

One of these reasons was that the British government badly needed to keep the public attention away from their criminal Iraq and Afghanistan misadventures and focussed to events at home.

The other was the special trans-Atlantic relationship that required constant airing of Islamophobia for justifying their on-going killings of millions of people in the playfields chosen by their vested interests.

But it seems increasingly obvious that British are expected to forgo their own identity for the sake of other cultures here.

My child, this process is called assimilation in plain simple terms and it goes on all the time. And, in all cultures. I wish you could show me just one social group that is ever as static, as dumb or as dead to vital change.

Has Britain not changed through this past milleneum? without these new communities being on her soil? Or for that matter, haven't the world wars changed our great Brits, at all?

Being pure English is more romantic a dream than Tony Blair and Osama Bin Laden starting a life together in a Bolton Council flat, as a couple!

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