oh boy - what a beauty! |
Post Reply | Page <1234 5> |
Author | ||||
minuteman
Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Martha: I find it very strange if muslims dont know the basics of Islam though. It sends out a very bad message to non-muslims doesnt it. And doesnt unite muslims on the whole. It is true that muslims are not aware of many basic things. That is why they are divided into sects and they are having different ideas. Do not worry. Just keep your eyes and ears open. Insha Allah you will understand with time. Lack of funds and other constraints is not a reasonable excuse for failing to understand Islam, wherever muslims live. What I mean is that the muslims do not have as much funds and facility to propagate their faith and in despair they do the wrong things such as that reported from Malayasia. or such as the king of Saudi arabia pardoning a lady victim of rape against the ruling of the Sharia court. And such as calling all those who did not recite the Kalimah as kaafir. etc. These are basic important things to be sorted out to live and progress in the world. Islam has given the correct answer for all these things only if any one will listen or agree. Muslims can face all kinds of restraints when it comes to practising Islam, I understand that, but Islam first of all should be in our hearts. No one has any influence over that. I dont know if Doo-bop is muslim or not. I feel very sad when muslims fail to unite throughout the world. Yes, you are right. Unity is necessary. I will get back to you about the unity of Muslims, Insha Allah. Doo-bop seems to be christian. But only he can tell. |
||||
martha
Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1140 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
minuteman. thankyou again for the guidance you give me and others. And I will look forward to your posting regarding the unity of muslims. There are many kind people in the ICforum, and I am glad to be a member within it.
|
||||
Doo-bop
Senior Member Joined: 04 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 531 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Thank you, minuteman, for this full and frank confession. You have further proved that we do not worship the same God. You have admitted it here yourself, since you refer to "your God" and "my God", not "our God", and, of course, you are correct to do so, as I have always said. You see how simple it is to pick holes in your arguments? So now you are claiming that because God has a Son, that he needs a son? Please show some understanding here. Let us consider the claims you make for Allah, your God. You say he needs nothing, but yet that he made the world, indeed the whole universe. Why? Did he need it? If he did not need it why did he make it? ---The answer is that there is no reason to suppose he needed it, just because he made it. And so there is no reason to suppose God needed a Son, just because he begat one Btw, I wish you would stop pretending to Martha that you are a Muslim. You and I both know what you are. As an Ahmadiyya person, you are not considered to be a Muslim (I am not saying this, but the Muslims say it, as you fully well know) --and you will also know that in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (so-called!) your people are not allowed to call their places of worship "mosques", nor to refer to themselves as "Muslims" just as the Christians of Malaysia are not being allowed to refer to their God as "Allah"......(why the latter should even want to is another matter, an even bigger mystery...) Edited by Doo-bop |
||||
Doo-bop
Senior Member Joined: 04 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 531 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
As you know, minuteman, we do not accept that Islam existed before Muhammad. There is also no evidence for that. Your assertion that "Islam" means "Peaceful" is furthermore nonsense. We know that it means "submission" |
||||
martha
Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1140 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Doo-bop, Christians believe that God is also known as 'Father in Heaven'. Do you agree with this so far? If this is the case then, not only is Jesus the Son of God, but we are in fact all sons and daughters of God. Let me explain further. God made the earth and the whole universe for a very important reason. I imagine you are a Catholic Christian. If this is the case I dont expect you to understand the following as it is not something you believe. But I'll explain something I learned as a Christian. But remember that I am now a muslim. And muslim for a reason. Before the earth was formed we lived in spirit form, all together, as spirit sons and daughters of God. We saw that God was perfect, and had a body, and we also wanted the same. So God made the earth and put Adam and Eve in the world. This way we could obtain a body.He said that when we came to earth that all knowledge of our previous life would be erased, but that he wouldnt abandon us, and would give us messengers to guide us. He gave us free choice to make our own decisions during our time on earth. He said that we would be tempted by Satan, to go astray and this could prevent us from getting to Heaven. If we followed the messengers he sent ie Noah, Abraham, Moses etc etc also Jesus, then we had the opportunity to be saved, by our deeds. Jesus atoned for all the sins of every person on earth. This was a necessary part of the plan. As Adam and Eve had both sinned in the Garden of Eden all humans would be open to sin also. As such, Jesus was our older brother in the life before this one. But we wouldnt necesarily recognise Him in this life. That depended on whether we believed He was the Son of God. Basically this was the plan. And another perspective of a Christian faith that God needed to make the earth. Now these ideas above will disturb you as a Christian. Fortunately I am sensible enough to know that there are many truths in many religions, whether we understand them all or not. I am trying to understand Islamic truths, and concentrate my time on this. As you are Christian I would have thought you would have felt that your time would be better spent understanding your own? There is little to gain trying to prove another religion is wrong, wouldnt you agree? What is it that makes you want to prove Islam wrong? Do you also try to prove other Christian religions wrong? If you dont accept my explanation above of the creation, then maybe you should. I am more than happy to discuss your religion with you if you like. Or is it that you dont really believe in it yourself to be able to give satisfactory replies? ( I havent read through all the threads, maybe you have already explained about your faith somewhere. I am happy for you to direct me if this is the case) |
||||
Andalus
Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Please put us out of our misery and take a course in critical thinking. Seriously, once again you have made absolutely no sense, and have used the forum for yet another childish rant.
Idiotic point, given that various levels of censorship that exist and is accepted in the west as well when it comes to the belief that something must be protectd, in this case in Malaysia, it is the truth being protected. You must be desperate to find something to whine about. Lets continue your intellectual misery:
My question is: Who cares and what does your statement prove? Your opinions carry no wieght.
The real question is, why do you care if you do not believe that Muslims and Christians worship the same God? If you truly carried even an ounce of intellectually integrity, instead of this silly bankrupt charade you engage in, you should be proud of the Malaysian official. Instead, as usual, you take every opportunity possible to bash Muslims. It does not matter what Muslims say, you will make sure you find something to whine about. Next, please prove that the above statement of the Malaysian official is proof that Muslims believe that they do not worship the same God. This is yet another one of your typical "cheap tricks" The issue is not if we worship the same God. You know what the issue is, and you still distracted from it.
So what is your complaint. Be happy? Seriously. Although your conlcusion is false on numerous level and reveals your inability to form an argument, my real suprise is that you still have to whine.
His statement does not provide evidence that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, and your conclusion simply does not follow.
Edited by Andalus |
||||
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
||||
Andalus
Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
No one has claimed that Islam, as defined by the Ummah after Prophet Muhammad (saw), was around before him. You are either extremely ignorant, or you are trying to play obtuse as a means to convolute the point given to you and waste time (your typical pattern) so you can take another cheap shot at my faith. Islam, being a path that a Muslim submits to God has been around, which carries the central core teachings, regardless of the nation that the message went to.
You have already been shown, answered, and replied to. Peacemaker has already warned you about "spamming" the forum with your evangelical howler about Islam and peace.
Islam is a faith of peace. Your Christian hypocrisy exceeds all bounds. Your God Jesus can take place in the slaughter of children, but you simply brush it off as, "piouse Christian violence that was required for the other covenant", and then have the further nerve to wash your hands of it and say that Jesus did not actually teach you to do that, just the other people, as if an illogical teqhnical point really serves your purpose. Your trying to make a distinction without a difference, and then you actually believe that this irrational garbage really removes you from the theological mess of your bible. And that is why Christianity is seen as intellectually bankrupt, and that is why the average convert age to your faith is in their teens. You have been warned once about your continued jab at Islam in the context of peace. You have been answered and replied to on many occasions, if you do not agree, then you will have to agree to disagree and move on from this point. Consider this your first official warning. |
||||
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
||||
Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Doo-Bop, It is quite clear that you lack any consciousness regarding the issue within the link you provided. First, there is some discrepencies with the usage of the word "Allah." According to the article, "Che Din said Christians don't use the word Allah when they worship in English, so they shouldn't use it in the Malay language too." Now I may disagree with Mr. Din here when he mentions the Christian objectionable use of the word Allah simply on the basis that he is generalizing every Catholic in Malaysia. The word Allah, according to the article was used for a long time by Catholics to represent God however the reasons why Catholics cannot use Allah are still not clear. You have further proved that we do not worship the same God. Doo-Bop you amaze me sometimes. You'll take the slightest (or the most) disagreeable thing towards Islam and make this huge ordeal about the differences between Muslims and Christians. This is one article with the opinions of individuals who represent a large portion of the Muslim population. But their opinions, regardless how of the population is still not universal. Even if a muslim in a newsarticle made a protest exclaiming that Muslims and Christians have different gods does not entail universal truth. In these matters truth is what you make of it and frankly, you are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. Muslims and Christians and Jews have the same God from the simple fact that within the conscious mind in this universe on this physical plane, there is only one physically unknowable Artisan whose laws every minute and great creature are subject to. Regardless whether you Doo-Bop do not acknowledge this Artisan as Allah, Tuhan, Brahman whatever is your choice, but the fact of the matter here is in the Muslim mind (again according to my view) believes that there is only one Creator whether you believe or not or whether you are in a different spiritual faith or not.
|
||||
Post Reply | Page <1234 5> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |