Ask an Atheist |
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Diagoras
Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 8:24am | |||
Hey, thanks for the question Layalee. The answer is if we postulate a source that created that one bit of matter, what created the source? If you insist that this source always existed, why not say that this matter just came into existence so long as we are breaking the laws of reality.
Actually, I'm not. My parents were respectively Quaker and Catholic and took me to church every day (the priest was a great guy too). And my life has been fine. Generalizations are not a good thing. My point, if you go to iidb.com and read people's deconversion stories you'll find that many of them were even fervently religious. Until you have engaged in a randomly-sampled, statistically valid survey and determined that most atheist fall into that category your conclusions are all based on anecdotal evidence. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I don't like being told how I think.
I have to disagree. If you are postulating the existence of a super powerful creature which created the Universe, listens to our prayers, intervenes on occasion, and, most importantly, whose followers think that the can make laws based on this supposed God's will and kill each other over it as well, then that is not subjective. Any such God's influence on the natural Universe could be detected and their followers must prove its existence before telling us how to live our lives. |
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herjihad
Senior Member Joined: 26 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2473 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 9:28am | |||
Salaamu Alaykum Diagoras, Welcome to the forum. I have no problem with your atheism as that is between you and Allah, (or not as you wish). But you're a republican!?! Aaargh. LOL. |
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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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layalee
Senior Member Joined: 04 August 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 157 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 9:36am | |||
Salaam, Israfil. Yes, its possible to still say that. But even by doing so, we are still claiming the possibility of a creator. I do find that Allah(swt) is super-intelligent. But I will never use the word alien. I like the label 'God'. We will never know where Allah( swt) actually reside. So, there is a POSSIBILITY Allah could reside on another planet, and created life on earth. But its difficult for my mind to grasp that idea, because I look at Allah(swt) to be in spirit format. But regardless of location Allah(swt) knows what we all do and whats in our hearts anyway. |
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Diagoras
Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 9:39am | |||
No no, a democratic republican as in one whom supports a republic, not the political party.
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 2:28pm | |||
Diagoras, you are in bold: Actually, I'm not. My parents were respectively Quaker and Catholic and took me to church every day (the priest was a great guy too). And my life has been fine. Ok that is acceptable. However the development of any belief whether supernatural or not is systematic. There had to be external variables that contributed to the development of your non-belief in God. I too have read on Atheistic thinkers who grew up in a highly religious environment and had, eventually fostered their disbelief in God. Generalizations are not a good thing. My point, if you go to iidb.com and read people's deconversion stories you'll find that many of them were even fervently religious. Until you have engaged in a randomly-sampled, statistically valid survey and determined that most atheist fall into that category your conclusions are all based on anecdotal evidence. I'm sure I'll find wonderful stories. However, I wouldn't go to that extent to do an Haphazard sampling of individuals who share a non-belief in God to prove my point. The context of my previous remark was to show within the limited confounds of our environment our beliefs are highly influenced. For instance, you may have went to college and studied a natural science and had slowly developed a disbelief in super -natural deities. I've known friends of mine who act as if their disbeliefs are not influenced at ALL, but all beliefs whether we agree or not are influenced by our environment. It is not to offend you but to prove that your beliefs [as well as mines] are the result of the environment. I'm trying to figure out at which point did you disbelieve in God [or if you believed in God at all]? If you can show that none of your beliefs were the result of your environment, I'll be highly impressed. The only other way something is not environmental is biological and beliefs are not genetically encoded. I have to disagree. If you are postulating the existence of a super powerful creature which created the Universe, listens to our prayers, intervenes on occasion, and, most importantly, whose followers think that the can make laws based on this supposed God's will and kill each other over it as well, then that is not subjective. You are mentioning this from the perspective of the follower which in this case you are right. But this mindset is not universally applicable, as you know well that the obvious- all humans do not share the same spiritual belief. Beliefs that are not held universally and only partially are subjective. In my mind of course what Allah states in the Qur'an is universal and humans, OUGHT to believe in it but outside this frame of mind I know that what I believe is not universally held as true because there are religious divisions that believe otherwise. Nothing is outside our influence-except....God [Personal Truth]. Any such God's influence on the natural Universe could be detected and their followers must prove its existence before telling us how to live our lives. "God exist." If such a postulation can be made then its obvious I'm bound to prove God exist but this is also equally applicable to the atheist who makes the claim that: God does not exist. Unless you comence in dialogue one or the other must prove that their claim is right-this is also useful in a debate. Many atheist's claim God does not exist for the reasons of empiricism but if possibilities exist then one cannot make a solid claim on anything. I've found in my life that we are all products of nature and society. Because I grew up in a highly Christian environment [although rejecting Christianity later in my adulthood] the transition from Christianity to Islam was easier for me because of its [Islam] familiarity. This was the influence my Christian environment had on me at the time. This is obviously a contrast to how you were raised but as I mentioned in my earlier post there are "lurking external variables" that influence which way we go.
Edited by Israfil |
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Diagoras
Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 3:00pm | |||
Ah, sorry then. I thought you were trying to cast my atheism as either rebellion against God or simple ignorance. Though individuals may have genetic predilections, I agree that belief is determined based on external inputs, generally arguments.
I don't really understand what you are saying about subjective belief, are you saying that there is no such thing as objective reality? Bear with me, I'm slow to understand. "God exist." If such a postulation can be made then its obvious I'm bound to prove God exist but this is also equally applicable to the atheist who makes the claim that: God does not exist. Wow, bolding is a lot easier than quoting. Thanks.I make no claim that God does not exist, just as I make no claim that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. I just don't consider hypothesis true before evidence has been presented for them. Until I see good evidence for the God Hypothesis I put it in the same category as phrenology, interesting but no evidence. Indeed, both phrenology and the God Hypothesis make rather ridiculous claims. |
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herjihad
Senior Member Joined: 26 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2473 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 4:39pm | |||
Phrenology is ridiculous. Do you really hold that as equal to belief in God? The History of Phrenology
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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Diagoras
Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 5:57pm | |||
Yup. Both have no evidence in their favor. Also unicorns, leprechauns, and evil ninja cyborgs from Proxima Centauri B.
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