A Simple Way to Experience Christ

========================== 

Jocko, can you please see the two separate things in the verse quoted (17:3).  We believe it is true that to know eternal life it was necessary to know the real God and Jesus whom God had sent. Jesus is a separate person and not included in God in that verse.

========================

  In that passage and in the whole Gospel of John Jesus is distinct from the Father but He is not separate from the Father. Christ is the zoe [ the divine life of God].

 We also have psuche translated as life. And we have  bios translated as life. Zoe translated as life means the divine life of God.

  The eternal life which God imparts to man IS that Son of God Jesus Christ.

  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, He was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1)

  "In Him [the Word] was life ... " (John 1:4)

  "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall by no means hunger, and he who believes into Me shall by no means ever thirst." (John 5:35)

  "For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world" (5:33)

  "Truly, truly I say to you, He who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life" (5:46,47)

  "I am the living bread which came down out of heaven; if anyone eats this bread, he shall live forever; And the bread wich I will give is My flesh, given for the life of the world" (5:51,52)

   You must see by all these verses that Jesus Christ is God come to us embodied in a man. He comes to give us Himself as the divine and eternal life of God.

 To eat Him means we must take Him into our being. We must receive this incarnated Jesus, Who is the ZOE divine life of God, into our being. He must get on the inside of our human vessel. He must enter into the innermost part of our spiritual being.

===========================

 Why are you interested to tie the two together.

==========================

  Because "TOGETHER" is what is revealed.

  "I am the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25)

  "I am the way and the reality and the life ..." (John 14:6)

   Jesus is emphatic to teach that the very life of God is He in His incarnation. For example:

 "Jesus therefore said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life within you.

 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up in the last day.

 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink" (John 6:53-55)

 This is very radical. But we understand this to be God Himself in the form of a man saying in essence

 "You have to realize that I am God come to you in flesh and blood to impart My life into man. That God and man may be mingled TOGETHER." [paraphrase]

    Eat His flesh. Drink His blood. This means to fully receive into us His incarnation. God has come to us incarnated. And no one comes to the Father except through this incarnated God-man the Son.

=======================

We Muslims have a Kalimah and we believe that in order to achieve salvation one must obey the God and the prophet. In the Quran also, it is written at many places to "Obey Allah and the messenger..".  So are we Muslims also entitled to make Muhammad a god or part of God. Surey not.

============================

 I understand that. But that is not the teaching of the Bible.

 "the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

  You should think of the Trinity as a process. In God's journey to come into man and to be the eternal life of man He is economically moving through a kind of process.

 The Word became flesh. He said we must internalize Him - eat His flesh and drink His blood. But it is not His physical body that we really eat and digest. It is as this Man died for our redemption and resurrected to become "a life giving Spirit". As this life giving Spirit that the Man, the Word become flesh, also became, He imparts God into us as ZOE life.

 This was the interpretation given by Jesus Himself in that radical chapter 6. Read this:

 "Many therefore of His disciples, when they heard this, said, This word is hard; who can hear it" (7:60)

 That is the word about eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus that we may have eternal life. Jesus did not stop them from leaving. But He went on to explain to those who believed in Him:

 " .. Jesus knowing in Himself that His disciples murmuring about this, said to them, does this stumble you? ... It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing' the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (See John 6:61-63) 

   The final form of God reaching us as eternal life is in the life giving Spirit. And the word of Jesus conveys this life giving Spirit into us which Jesus became.

Therefore practically today, to eat Jesus, to drink His blood and eat His flesh is to receive into our hearts His word in full belief.

 We must let His words enter into our spirit.

==========================

Please read verse 17:3 again and confirm that there is no mention of Jesus as a god. He is however mentioned as a messenger of God and we Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of Allah, quite a high level messenger and the last one to be sent to the children of Israel.

===========================

  You did not read it carefully. He came to give life to the world .. TO THE WORLD.

  I do not disagree that Christ is a Messenger. But the Messenger said to eat His flesh and drink His blood or we do not have the eternal and divine life of God in us.

 And we take seriously that "the Word was with God and the Word was God."

 You do not come right out and say "These words are a lie" because you want to leave a favorable impression on Christians that you revere the New Testament.

 But you don't believe the New Testament.

 Perhaps if you read it through without the commentary of Mohammed's Quran to shade and spin the teaching into what he wanted you to believe, you could then better see what is written there without prejudice.

====================

The apostles are being called the messengers too. But they were not the messengers of God. They (except paul) may be considered as the messengers of Jesus.

====================

 Of course Paul was a top faithful apostle of Christ.

  And so was John who recorded and penned down for us John 17:3. And this is what else the Apostle John wrote about knowing the true God and Jesus Christ:

 "And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we might know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life" (1 John 5:20).

  This could be a companion verse to John 17:3.

  John was deep in the experience of eternal life. He said the we, the believers in Christ are in Him who is true - "in His Son Jesus Christ".

 The true One is Him and His Son.

 I said that John says that the true One is the True One and His Son Jesus Christ. The True God includes His Son Jesus Christ. Oh yes. Read it again:

 " ... the Son of God has come

   and has given us an understanding

   that we might know Him who is true;

   and we are in Him who is true,

   IN HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ...

   THIS .... is the true God and eternal life"

  What does the word "THIS" refer back to?

   It refers to Him who is true and His Son. This (the true one and His Son) IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE.

    By saying "Lord Jesus, I believe. Help my unbelief" we may taste and enjoy the life of God imparted into our being. We can know the Divine Person of the Trinity dispensed into us as our life.

  Praise Him forever.

  Now, remember beloveds - on the third day. He arose from the dead !  And He is sweet and precious and incomprable - Jesus Christ the Lord.

  Concerning John 17:3:

  The short answer is that Jesus, as a man, showed His humility by refering to the Father as "the only true God".

  This was the human side of Him being manifested in His submission and obedience to His Father.

===========================

Thanks jocko. God had a human side too. But the words "Only true God " are very penetrating. Try to stress on them too. What else could be there beside the "The Only True God"?

=============================

   Yes. I agree that they are very penetrating words.

   Why do you not think that John 1:1,14 are also not very penetrating words?

    Did the Word Who was God cease to be God when the Word became flesh?  If you say yes, then you have not understood John's Gospel.

==================================== 

I have now to go back and read the subject all over again.

=====================================

    John does not want to stop at us knowing the only true God only objectively and outwardly. This Gospel is about this only true God being dispensed into man as eternal life. And for this God incarnation in the man Jesus Christ, Whom He sent, is a crucial step in this process.

 That is why to know eternal life is to know the true God and the Son Whom the true God has sent - Christ. Life is the objective God made subjective to us.

==============================

Please consider the word Only and also True God. I am thankful that you have now given a good short reply. That helps a lot.

=============================================

  Sure, I'll consider the word "only" a lot. We consider every part of the passage as we consider other verses as well.

minuteman wrote: After all you say that Jesus was a god. And holy spirit is a god. So how many gods are there while there is only One True God. Does it mean the other gods are not the true Gods??

hi minuteman, what they are saying is that Jesus is God not a god and the same with the holy spirit, is God not a god. There is a bit of a difference when you say "is" compared to "is a". So Jesus and the Holy Spirit is God (while being separate).