A Simple Way to Experience Christ

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The 'Father' was always a living one, never dead, Jocko.

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   BMZ, I might not argue with this. It is very very mysterious.

   But the Lord's apostle writes to us " ... that God, in Christ was reconciling the world to Himself ... on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God" (See 2 Cor. 5:19,20).

  The hymn writer wrote:

  "Tis mystery all, the Immortal dies,

   Who can explore this strange design?

   In vain the firstborn seraph tries,

   To sound the depths of love divine.

   Tis mercy all;  Let earth adore.

       Let angel's minds inquire no more."

       We are called not to be able to explain it all. We are commanded to believe the gospel.

BMZ wrote: Please show me ten verses from the gospels, which say that Jesus is God or The Lord God is Jesus and prove that. And please state those verses with references and do not quote anything outside the Christian Scripture.

I had previously posted these, so let me give Jocko a head start. You mentioned the gospels and the �Christian Scripture.� I am including the whole New Testament here.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God�. And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality. (John 1:1, 14)

Thomas answered and said to Him [Jesus], My Lord and my God! (John 20:28)

Because of this therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. (Matt 5:18)

� Christ Jesus, Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped. (Phil 2:5b-6)

But of the Son [God says], �Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. (Heb 1:8)

�Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel� (which is translated, God with us). (Matt 1:23)

Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among whom the Holy Spirit has placed you as overseers to shepherd the church of God, which He obtained through His own blood. (Acts 20:28)

Awaiting the blessed hope, even the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. (Titus 2:13)

In addition to these, I could show the verses again where Jesus allowed Himself to be worshiped. Jesus Himself said that one should worship only God, then He allowed Himself to be worshiped. Note that the angels (at least the good ones) would not allow themselves to be worshiped.

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Referring to your above post, I can confidently say that the greatest Commandment "You shall love your LORD God with all your hearts, all your minds and all your souls." is being brutally broken by 'glorifying' Jesus, execessively.

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   I did not write any commandment saying "Thou shalt glorify Jesus" and say that that commandment replaces "You shall love your Lord God ..."

  The Lord God is Jesus.

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Eternal life will be granted to all those who believe in the LORD Almighty God.  It is not a Jesus patent.

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   That is what the Quran teaches you. I respect that you believe that because you regard the Quran as a prophetic book.

  However according to the New Testament there is only one group of people I can think of who will live forever who are not born again. That is a special case which I doubt is anyone who is reading this discussion belongs to. And I don't want to discuss that case now.

 Notice I did not say will have "eternal life" but I said will live forever. Eternal life is Christ.

 "I am the way and the reality and THE LIFE ..." (John 14:6a)

 "I am the resurrection and THE LIFE ..." (John 11:25a). 

  But we have Christ's teaching and His apostles echo and Jesus taught:

  "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only tru God and Him whom YOu have sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

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In John 17:3, Jesus clearly maintains that he wants all to know the only True God. And he clarifies that he was sent by God.

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  In John 17:3 Jesus clearly wants us to have and experience ETERNAL LIFE and to have eternal life we must know His Father, the only true God, and Him whom He has sent, Jesus Christ.

   You teach that God has NO SON.

   You teach that God did not send His Son.

   You teach that this Man Jesus Christ is not the Son of God.

   You teach that this Man is not the life, ie. is not the life of God and is not eternal life.

   Your Quran totally opposes John 17:3 to the uttermost.

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What you read in John 17:3 is actually John quoting in his own words, not really quoting words as Jesus said.

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  Then you simply do not believe the Bible and you reject that Jesus spoke those words.

  So then why do you keep refering to them? Do you want to have it both ways? Do you want to insist that THIS John 17:3 is the true teaching of Jesus Christ and then insist that it is only John's words and not the word of Jesus?

 Make up your mind. Are these the words of Jesus or are they not?

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This can be easily seen by looking at the word Him, which I have emboldened in black. If Jesus had really said that he would have used me. The words Jesus Christ is also another tell-tale sign.

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   Jesus spoke concerning Himself in the third person in a number of places in the New Testament.

  As for hurting Christ by eating His flesh and drinking His blood, His own teaching to those who did not leave Him at the hardness of this word, indicates that the way to eat Jesus is to take into our heart His words. In other words receive His words and believe into Him:

  "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (John 6:63 right after verse 56,57).

   The life is in His words. The Holy Spirit is in His words. By "eating" His words we eat Jesus - ie, we take Jesus Christ the life giving Spirit into us. And He became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45).

 The life of Jesus and the Person of Jesus is conveyed into man by man taking in to thier being His words.

 "As the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me even he shall live because of Me" (John 6:57)

 I am not talking about Catholic transubstantiation in eating a wafer of bread. We eat Jesus by taking into our being His words which are spirit and life.

   "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (John 6:63 right after verse 56,57).

 It is wonderful that He has made Himself so available to us. It is amazing amd amazingly merciful. He has made Himself available, obtainable, and attainable for us.

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We are back to square one, Jocko. You are still trying to experience Jesus only, which, in my opinion, is not necessary.

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  You are mistaken. Emphatically and absolutely, I mean this as coming to Jesus us coming into the experience of God. There should be no question about this.

 Now you tell me, in this passage does Jesus Christ intend that we understand that it is necessary to experience Him [Jesus] in order to experience God or not?

 "Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).

 Is Jesus teaching there that He is not necessary for a person to come to His Father?

 "Jesus therefore said to them, Truly,truly, I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life within yourselves" (John 6:53).

 In the above passage does Jesus intend to teach that He is not necessary for us to experience God? If you say yes or you are not sure this indicates that you do not understand the significance of the phrase "have life within yourselves".

 This means to have God living in you. He is the uncreated, divine, and eternal life. We are truly back to square one. To know God is to have God within as the divine and eternal life.

 Going back to one of your favorite passages. Do you think here Jesus intends to teach that He is not necessary in the experience of God?

 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Him whom You have sent, Jesus Christ" (John 17:3)

  The divine life which we receive is knowing the true only God "AND Him" whom the true God has sent, Jesus Christ. It seems that you read the passage and want to omit "AND HIM" for the knowing of the divine and eternal life of God. This is a matter of true submission to God's way.

 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24)

  In this passage is Jesus teaching that He is not necessary for the experience of God and being saved from your sins by God?

 And I would add BMZ, not only is Jesus necessary to know God, but God is necessary for a man to come to know Jesus!

  "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day" (John 6:44).

  It would be acceptable for a person then to pray to God to allow him to come to Jesus. For without the drawing of God no one can come to Jesus either.

   "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes into Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up in the last day" (John 6:40)

 Here it is necesssary not merely to believe that a Jesus lived. God's will is that we believe INTO Him. We enter into the sphere and realm of this living Person who Himself is the life of God.

 Isn't Jesus teaching that He is necessary here to know God as the divine life?

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You have to try to experience God, the LORD Almighty, the LORD of everyone, the LORD Almighty of Jesus too. 

Do you remember how he taught to pray and to whom?

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   Yes I remember. I also remember that Jesus teaches that we are to ask Him in our praying also:

  "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it" (John 14:14).

  Asking in His name is not a formality. Nor does He mean any whim or wish, we may ask of Christ in prayer and receive.

 Asking Him [Jesus] in His name means that we are living and abiding in Him and praying according to the will of God.

 For we are taught to believe INTO Him as I mentioned before. And we are taught to remain, linger, and abide in Him. Without Him we can do nothing. That means without abiding in Him in His resurrected state as the Holy Spirit we can do nothing for the eternal purpose of God. And all that we do without Him will amount to nothing.

 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman ... Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:4,5).

 It is about living in God. It is about God living in a mingled and blended way with man. It is about God and man uniting together in an "organic" (so to speak) blending.