Saudi women want end to driving ban

Its great to think that women should "just stay at home." The reality is that this is not at all practical.  I can simpley say we need women in different realms of life.

I know for instance that in Saudi Arabia they have malls for women only. In that case they need women to work in these malls.

2nd women whould and have rights to education. Who will teach these women? Don't we need women educators? I have a gift as a teacher. That is something that I gain and others gain from it. There is nothing that says I should just stay at home. And one issue in the Moslem world is that there is not enough women educators. How can 60% of women in Pakistan and 40% of Arab women remain illiterate? How can any Moslem society think that this acceptable? How can women adequately participate in society if they are severely hampered in this way. What happens if something goes wrong and she must work? If she does not have an education her life and the life of any children is severely restricted. Thus we need women to educte women.

3rd: women should have rights to medical care. I tell you having had a woman doctor made all the difference in the world. 

Not all women have a "man" to protect them. That is a given. Not all men can provide adequately for women. Clearly that is the case or the vast majority of the poor in the world would not be women and children.

One thing I saw that was very difficult was the culture of dependency this creates when a "rigid" system is set up of men out of home, women in home. Were not the Prophet's wives active in the community? Was not Khadijah a business woman? Did not women go and nurse the wounded? In a more "basic" lifestyle you contributed. I reember reading that most women there did some type of labor of some sort. The "just stay at home" thing is only, only for the wealthy. Thus this sort of impractical concept only happens in Saudi Arabia. They are wealthy enough to put it into practice. The vast majority of women in the world do work. They work really hard. My favorite was in the villages seeing women carrying huge budles of wood on their backs while the men say around.  Imagine if they just "stayed" in the home these men would have to do the hard work.

When I was in Pakistan it ws very difficult to always be reliant upon others to take me somewhere. To have to always be depedent upon them. It thus not only creates a mental mindset of helplessness, but also a very big power imbalance.

Angela, you are right about the safety factor. We are all less safe when we are alone. Crime is about opportunity as well as motive. That is why people break into homes with women alone and rape them.

It is irritating as driving is a skill. They don't even say the women can drive with a mahram with them. So it is stricly about "control". If they cannot drive they have to "obey." This is treating women as though they are children. They cannot make decisions for themselves. 

Hi Angela,

You know sister we are at cross roads here- you are discussing about fear and I am talking about women staying at home in obedience to Allah. The fear you are talking about we go thru on a daily basis whether we are alone, with our Mahrams or with a group of people, inside the home or outside. The crime rate in my country is amongst one of the highest in the world.

My whole argument is that Allah has given men a role and women a role � and we should strive to fulfil these roles to the best of our ability. Men work outside the home, women work inside the home - so simple. And this is something I truly believe in and this is something you don�t believe in. If you did the initial Fatawa I posted would not have offended you.

As far as scholars are concerned, you are correct I totally agree with you. We have to be extremely careful when choosing scholars and/or websites. This also applies to the books we read - infact every media.

Yes there is no Islamic society in the true sense of the word � in letter or in spirit. However I pray that you do meet and make friends with Saudi women � not those who are making all the noise but those who are the core of the Saudi society, you will be in for some big time surprises.

Take care

Peace

Hi Angela,

The issue is related to Saudi Women and driving and the Fatawa I posted is by Saudi scholars.

Towards the end of the Fatawa the scholar states:

Women should also seek fatwas from the trustworthy scholars in their own countries � not those who are too lenient � who understand both sharee�ah and the situation in that country. 

When we discuss the situation of women in general, culture and other aspects come into play. In my country women don�t even wear Hijab. Islam is equal to the 5 pillars that�s it. It is not a way of life. Only recently we are seeing an Islamic revival in our country. Today some women wear Hijab, some wear Niqab. Women always worked and drove cars, some still drive wearing the Hijab, some drive wearing Niqab. Some like me stopped driving altogether. I don�t deny that Herjihad drove very nicely with Hijab � You know what � I used to drive wearing Niqab-no problem whatsoever. But I don�t live in Saudi Arabia the culture- their way of life is completely different there. What is normal for you and me is disastrous for them. Alhamdulillah! You are in favour of modesty. Very few Muslim women in my country know the true meaning of modesty. I did not know the true meaning either till a few years ago.

We always don�t accept anything that goes against our own way of thinking. We are too set in our ideas. I was like that till Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala opened by heart to the true teachings of Islam.  Alhamdulillah!

Like I said earlier, you and I will never agree because we see things differently. If the women at the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) were so free, why did he (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) say: (paraphrasing two Hadith) That women should seek the permission from their husbands to go to the Masjid (Salah is an obligation on all Muslims- why do I need my husband�s permission to fulfil a duty to my Lord when I am free to join the work force) and that women are rewarded much more if they prayed at home.

Yes there are many Hadith about women approaching the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) with questions. Didn�t I mention already that women can go out to seek education and work if there is a need for her to do so?

We get upset with Fatawas from scholars and are very quick to criticise them because we pick and chose what we wish to follow. I have walked down that road, I did that all the time, so I know what I am talking about.

I think personally, we lost our rights when we joined the work force. When we tried to compete with our husbands to bring more money into the home than him, when we started having dinners with our male colleagues when we should be putting our children to bed and teaching them the Dua to pray before sleeping, when our husband stopped supporting us anymore because we have become so self-sufficient.

I stay at home, I don�t have children. And at the same time I am not a useless member of the community. I visit the sick, I help orphans, go shopping and do many things outside the home as well but with a Mahram (my husband, my brother or nephew) beside me or a Mahram to take me to my destination and pick me up later. Most importantly I saved my marriage.

This is my way of looking at life just as you have your own views and priorities. If you read the Fatawa I posted carefully, you will see that the scholar is pointing out how one act can lead to another nowhere does he state that women should stay at home 24/7.

I have nothing more to add except that I agree with the Shaikhs who say that, it is the Fitnah of the women leaving her home that has made the men go out of control.

And these are the words of our dear Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam):

�I have not left behind me any temptation (Fitnah) more harmful for men than women� (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Peace

Hi Angela

You have also posted some very interesting Fatawa and article on this issue.

I don�t find anything insulting in the Fatawa I posted, just a different way of approaching the same subject.

On the other hand I too will feel insulted if someone thinks I am not an active member of the community if I chose to stay at home and don�t drive to avoid the temptations of the outside world.

Not to be rude, but are you saying that covering your eyes is obligatory????  Because even Niqabs leave the eyes unveiled. 

No covering the face is not obligatory but the majority of the Saudi women do not wear the Niqab but cover their faces completely � no eyes showing. The Majority of the local women are completely covered.

The way I look at most issues pertaining to women � driving, working, Hijab, Niqab etc - it is the desires of the enemies of Islam to strip us of our honor and rights. You will not look at these issues the same way. You will think I am craze to even think that. Well maybe you are right. The only time I truly realized and appreciated the role of a Muslim woman was, after I started studying Islam. I grow up in a western country, and I know all about freedom.

The more I study Islam, the more I realize the games played by the enemies, (amongst the Muslims and the non-Muslims,) of Islam. Sometimes I wonder why so many women are reverting to Islam. Does not make any sense to me because women are portrayed as weak, oppressed, can�t work, can�t drive can�t do anything���..except keep house and be a slave to her husband, within locked indoors with the keys thrown away, so why would any sane woman wish to revert to Islam. Beats me!

Regarding that report - how many Saudi women actually signed the petition? 1100 men and women speaking for millions of Saudi women. We place too much emphasis on media reports, but I am sure the reality is very different. But then again times are changing, who knows where this will lead. From the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) till about 10 or maybe 15 years ago, women were proud being just women. Now we have a few Muslims talking for the rest of us.

When did the need arise for women to drive, go shopping etc � when Muslims moved away from the true teachings of Islam � men forsaking their roles and women forsaking their roles, assigned by Allah.

We have to realize that our level of piety does not come any where near the level of piety of the early Muslims and the level of Fitnah (in the world today -even in Muslim countries) is a million times worse than the Fitnah during the early days of Islam. Don�t we have to take more precautions than them, don't we have to work 1000 times harder in order to enter Paradise?

Let me share one of my favorite verses from the Qur'an

�But the wish of those who follow their lusts is that you should deviate away (from the Right path), far, far away� (Surah An-Nisa' 4: 27)

As Muslims when we start compromising on one thing, we follow with another, then another. Not only Muslims - all mankind. Take a thief, first time he steals it is very difficult, second time easier then easier and easier until he does not regard it as a sin anymore. 

Look at some of the Muslim countries - open drinking, prostitution, no modesty at all � nothing. Haya, and Islam flew out of the window. Money, drinking, prostitution all flew in����� Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! Here's a warning for all Muslims: 

The Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) said,

By He in Whose Hand is my soul! You will follow the traditions of those who were before you a hand span for a hand-span and forearm's length for forearm's length, and an arm's length for an arm's length. And even if they enter the den of a lizard, you will also enter it.

They asked, "Who, O Allah's Messenger, the People of the Book'' He said, (Who else)''  (Muslim)

The scholars have made it very clear there is no harm for the woman to learn what she is required to know of her religion and other sciences; it is in fact obligatory upon her to do so and if she needs to work outside her home she can do so as long as she takes all the necessary precautions and abide by the standards set by Islam.

However, due to their insight they are also warning women about the dangers of the outside world. We should stop and listen. We don't have to the choice is ours.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala protect us from our whims and desires and forgive us our shortcomings. May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala guide our misguided brothers and sisters back to the true path. Ameen!

Take care

Peace