Interested in answers... |
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peacemaker
Moderator Group Male Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
Topic: Interested in answers... Posted: 03 October 2007 at 10:27am |
Assalamu Alaikum, The thread will be closed due to various violations. Please read the guidelines and comply. |
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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13 |
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
Posted: 03 October 2007 at 8:44am |
Oh yes, I would agree the basics of Christianity are supposed to be peace and forgiveness, but I have found over the years that evil men will twist anything to their own gain. Chrisitanity is about brotherhood. Yet, until recently and even in some circles, being black is taught to either be the Mark of Cain or they are descendants of Ham. I have been SHOCKED to see people who are rational and professed Christians tell their children this. (Specifically a Baptist friend of mine who told her children Evolution isn't right, being black is the Mark of Cain ) Political leaders have been using Christianity for 1700 years for political gain. They have made rulings and twisted doctrines to give them the maximum power. Everything from tracing lineages to David to justify claims to the Throne of (Fill in the Blank) Nation to declaring heretics and casting them out of their countries. If Christianity were not such a powerful tool, then Pennsylvania would not have been settled by the Quakers, Massachusetts by the Puritans and the Mormons wouldn't have been driven from Illinois under threats of death. I always fear a leader who wears their faith so openly. In Russia, they say true christians wear their cross under their clothes. Its a sign of humility. For years, I wore my Crucifix under my shirt for that reason. So, when these things happen in Islamic countries, I think of the Byzantine Empire and the Holy Roman Empire. Its no different. I look at the Church of England, the Catholic Church and the Evangelical movement. Atheism is even a religion of sorts. Look at the fanatical actions of Atheist nations like the USSR. Islam's basis is brotherhood. The Quran says to kill a man is to have killed all of humanity, but to save a man is to have saved all of humanity. If we lived in a perfect world where there were no evil, then there would be no violence. Hinduism is pacifist. Study Rajaraja Chola I. He built many temples because his hands were bloodied by war and its a major sin in Hinduism to kill. Islam cannot be blamed for those who pervert it and take passages out of context. Nor can any other faith. |
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Anatolian
Groupie Joined: 12 September 2007 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
Posted: 03 October 2007 at 12:11am |
I believe I am seeking knowledge here and in turn I raise excellent points.
I'm not here to stir up any hate. I'm here to understand why some acts are committed by muslims. Why some beliefs are followed and why is there no outcry by the moderates. I am purely an amateur at this but it shouldnt keep me back from asking questions and rebuting answers and if that bothers you Angela then its very easy to ignore my posts and replies. I was born and raised in a Muslim dominated country and I know first hand what happens to one who doesnt belong to the rest of the flock. One who happens to walk by a mosque after Friday prayers and is attacked by men who are full of rage and is stabbed numerous times because an imam went off on a rant that day about the Nasrawis (Christians), and I happened to be a scapegoat... And to top it off the men were caught but released that day once the police found out I had survived the attack. I have every right to understand where this hate is generated from! As for Christianity being used as a political tool is a shame. Nobody confesses more to a divison of Church and State then Christ himself where he said" "Give what belongs to Ceasar to him and what belongs to God to God." Whether it be popes, emperors, doesnt matter he who has abused this delicate line is or will be getting his in the afterlife. I truly believe so. The difference between Christianity and Islam is the fact that Islam was a military, social and politcal force as well as a religious. That is why there is hardly any seperation between religion and state in most if not all Islamic dominated countries. It's is impossible to do so. After all the hell committed by Christian dominated Europe and America in the name of Christ is against all His teachings. And if Angela you claim to be a history buff you will know this as truth. The main foundation of Christianity is peace and forgiveness. That is not what the europeans and americans have been practicing not just now but from a while back. To use Christianity to spread political or economical ideas is nonsense and has no basis. |
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peacemaker
Moderator Group Male Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
Posted: 02 October 2007 at 10:55am |
"There is no limit on questions one may ask or repeatedly ask to clarify a point about Islamic faith as long as the purpose is to seek knowledge about Islam. This is the place where only those who believe in Islamic faith and have proper knowledge on the subject should take part to answer, and those who can not positively contribute here should not take part." http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7684& ;PN=1
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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13 |
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peacemaker
Moderator Group Male Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
Posted: 02 October 2007 at 10:52am |
It is important to read the guidelines: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589& ; ;PN=1 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7684& ; ;PN=1 Peace |
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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13 |
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
Posted: 02 October 2007 at 10:31am |
Ummm, you realize that prior to 325 that Deuteronomy and Revelations were their own books right? They were not part of a collection? That the ban is on adding specifically to those books...ie Revelations and Deuteronomy... The "Bible" didn't come into being until 325AD... its a collection of books, with many, many others left out. It was a Council of men who decided what was most accurate and true and in what order to put the books into... The Book of Revelations is placed in one of two time periods... 68-69AD and more conservatively 95-96 AD... According to http://www.earlychristianwritings.com which is an excellent source for both canon and non canon texts, 2 Peter was written between 100 and 160 AD. Does that mean that all the books after Revelations should be thrown out??? Surely not. I absolutely love it when people try to use Revelations 22: 18-19 wrongly. So many Christians don't understand the origins of our own book. They see it 1700 years ex-post facto as two books, the Old Testament and the New...its not...its 66 Books divided into two categories. Please, if you are going to come to a site and ask a bunch of question...please get your facts in order. (I noticed some aggregious errors in your other posts like Fatima in the place of Khadija and such). If you are going to debate...have your facts checked in advance. Now, as a Christian, I do not believe in the infallibility of any book. If I did, I'd probably be Muslim. As a history buff, I realize that the Holy Scriptures have been messed with for political gain since Rome converted to Christianity. Don't you think that the Council put Revelations exactly where its at to keep the "heretics" in check? To cement their "absolute" authority over what books where and were not canon? And if that's the case, everything passed Dueteronomy is out... 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
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rami
Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
Posted: 02 October 2007 at 8:42am |
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem
As for the Qu'ran, it was gathered word for word by Khalif Uthman (3rd). Many of those who recited it word for word either had died by the time of his Khalifate or were killed in battle. Many sahaba died but not all, and we are talking about those who originaly heard most of the the revelation not simply recited it word for word which where neumorous and there numbers increasing on a daily basis. so one could not claim that the Qu'ran had survived in complete form from Muhammed's mouth to now can they? yes they can you claims are simply incorrect and full of mistakes. See, http://www.islamic-awareness.org/ They are not even compiled in chronological order. The Meccan and Medina verses are gathered down in disaray. Simply not true, we have the exact order as the prophet recited it himself preserved. Is this describing the Revelations of the Bible now used by Christians and Jews? So in fact Muhammed does not disclaim the truth of the Bible does he? This is reffering to the original revelation given to moses and Jesus [hs] not the bible or the torah, which the quran itself states have been corruptted. |
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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Anatolian
Groupie Joined: 12 September 2007 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
Posted: 02 October 2007 at 12:07am |
Also in Surah 29:46
"And dispute ye not with the people of the Book except with means better (then mere disputation) unless it be with those who inflict wrong and injury. but say "We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in turn has came down to you: Our Allah and your Allah is one.". Is this describing the Revelations of the Bible now used by Christians and Jews? So in fact Muhammed does not disclaim the truth of the Bible does he? |
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