I have a few questions! :)

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   aslaamoalikum,
how's everyone? why can't i post a new topic in general section or anywhere? do I have to have certain amount of posts? because i have a few things to ask. Firstly, I have a question about the Halal vs Zabiha debate.... They say halal is everything such as chicken, beef, veal, etc except pork, whereas zabiha is the actual slaughtering of the meet. My friends say its not important if its salughtered in the right manner, we can eat it as long as its 'halal' meaning as long as its not pork. Does anyone know of any specific surahs mentioned in the Quran or hadith that I can show to my friends because I know zabiha is legal way to eat, halal is not legit but i don't know where (if) it mentions in the quran to eat zabiha. Can anyone cite?

Secondly, (this will not make sense if you dont' have a pakistani passport). For those who know, why does it say on pakistani passport that 'this passport is valid for all countries of the world except israel'?  is this discrimination against the pakistani Christians or is there another reason behind it? I know 10 or 12 countries prohibit that and all of them are Muslim nations.. does anyone know the reason?

I hope someone knowledgeable about these topics can help me, as I would greatly appreciate your help! 
Jazak'Allah 

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saherimtiaz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 15 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote saherimtiaz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: I have a few questions! :) Posted: 17 September 2007 at 10:03am
	aslaamoalikum, how's everyone? why can't i post a new topic in general section or anywhere? do I have to have certain amount of posts? because i have a few things to ask. Firstly, I have a question about the Halal vs Zabiha debate.... They say halal is everything such as chicken, beef, veal, etc except pork, whereas zabiha is the actual slaughtering of the meet. My friends say its not important if its salughtered in the right manner, we can eat it as long as its 'halal' meaning as long as its not pork. Does anyone know of any specific surahs mentioned in the Quran or hadith that I can show to my friends because I know zabiha is legal way to eat, halal is not legit but i don't know where (if) it mentions in the quran to eat zabiha. Can anyone cite? Secondly, (this will not make sense if you dont' have a pakistani passport). For those who know, why does it say on pakistani passport that 'this passport is valid for all countries of the world except israel'? is this discrimination against the pakistani Christians or is there another reason behind it? I know 10 or 12 countries prohibit that and all of them are Muslim nations.. does anyone know the reason? I hope someone knowledgeable about these topics can help me, as I would greatly appreciate your help! Jazak'Allah

seekshidayath Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357	Post Options Post Reply Quote seekshidayath Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 September 2007 at 7:25pm
	As'Salamu Alaikum, Welcome to Islamicity. Insha-Allah any of our moderators shall look after your problem. Generally, we are not allowed in certain sections until we reach the number of posts - 40. You shud have tried at other sections. Anyways regarding hala vs Zabiha -here's a verse., �Made lawful to you this day are At‑Tayyibaat [all kinds of Halaal (lawful) foods, which Allaah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits)]. The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them� [al-Maa�idah 5:5] http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=71275&ln=eng&t xt=chicken http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=11609&ln=eng&t xt=beef Hope u get your answers Regarding the next question , Am sorry. Try out posting at other sections.
	Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

saherimtiaz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 15 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote saherimtiaz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 October 2007 at 5:25am
	jazakAllah for your answer. you mentioned: "The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them� Does this mean that we can eat meats that are available in regular grocery stores for example; jewel-osco? Because you are saying it is ok to eat the food of the Jews and Christians, as far as i know Jews do have kosher laws however there are no Christian salughterhouses that i know of? I am not sure what you mean. But according to your references they mention that it is not ok to eat non zabiha? I am still not sure about this, while online hunting I came across this: AL-ANAAM 121 And do not eat of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned, and that is most surely a transgression; and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their friends that they should contend with you; and if you obey them, you shall most surely be polytheists. NOw, the website where i read this states, that this is an abrogated verse. There fore i am not sure. Reference: Mar-e Ben Yousef Alkarmy http://thequran.com/Abrogations.aspx?t=2&r=1,2,3,4,5,6,7 ,8,9,10,11 Thank you for your response. Asalamwalikum

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 October 2007 at 10:25am
	Good question. Please read the verses 118 to 121 of the Surah Al-Ana'am. The verse 118 is also stressing the same thing as verse 121. It says that you should eat only from the meat on which the name of Allah is invoked. You should not eat from the meat on which name of Allah is not invoked. That makes it necessary that you should eat only the Zabihah and no other meat except fish. That will keep you more near to cleanliness. Also, since the Jews are known to be strict about worshipping one God only and they still follow some law and they have the Kosher, it is alright to eat from their meat. But please do not eat from the meat of the christians because they have abondoned the law of Moses a.s. When I was in London, I used to eat at a place called Rubinstein some time. Before that, I did not eat any type of meat for two years because of this same problem as yours. Please do not listen to any one who tells you not to eat from the Jews and christians meat. It is alright to avoid the christian's meat definitely. But not the Jews. If any Mulla tells you not to eat from the Jews Zabiah, that will be wrong. The verse 5:5 has already been presented to you that the food of the people of the book is lawful for you. That apparantly includes the christians. But I cannot say much about that. Anyhow, do not reject the meat of the Jews. It is proved from the Hadith that a Jewess invited the prophet s.a.w.s. to dinner and she put the deadly poison in the meat. The prophet s.a.w.s. went to eat at her home with companion or companions. One companion was quick in swallowing the meat. The prophet s.a.w.s. came to know about the poison in the meat so he threw out the food from his mouth. The companion died quickly. The prophet s.a.w.s. suffered much from that poison for a very long time. But it all proves that the meat of the Jews is lawful otherwise why would the prophet s.a.w.s. go to eat their meat !! I do not know if it helps. Just be careful and remain strict to the meat of the Muslims and the Jews, please.

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 October 2007 at 10:39am
	I forgot to mention the love of the pig in the christians and its byproducts (Fat etc). It is better to keep away from the christian food areas. The Jews, I believe do not eat the flesh of the swine. Also perhaps they do not keep any by product of the swine. If any one (Muslim) is uptodate on these things then it will be good to inform us about the custom of the Jews. Can we trust them that they are following the old rules / commandments?? I am grateful to a wonderful christian family where I was a (free) guest for a month (twice) in Germany. When they came to know that I do not drink and do not like anything of the swine, they were good enough never to bring the pig's meat in the house at all. They also locked the wine cupboard and opened the house made fruit juice cupboard. During the whole time they also did not drink any alcohol. I admire that family who had a very big house in Hamburg area. The house had flower garden (in front of house) and the fruit garden near back of house. And vegetable garden far off in the back of the house. There was every type of flower and fruit and vegetable available in the house. Real grand good christian family. I admire them. May Allah bless them with health and happiness.

rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 October 2007 at 8:15pm
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem assalamu alaikum The meat can not be halal if it is not slaughtered properly, what your friends have said [as well as the brothers above] and what ever supposed Alims [although i will add most likely the people listening to them heard what they liked rather than what was actually said] they follow is plainly wrong. This is the Traditional view not a newlely invented interpretation or someones personnel opinion. http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2035& CATE=127 The third condition: The third condition is that the slaughterer must be either a Muslim or from the people of the book (Ahl al-Kitab). The animal slaughtered by other then a Muslim or the People of the Book (namely, Jews and Christians, if the other conditions are also fulfilled) is haram according to all the jurists of Islam. Scholarly consensus (ijma`) has been transmitted on this matter by major authorities. [Ibn Qudama, Mughni 9.312, and other works] Allah Most High says: �Today are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them� (al-An�am, V. 5). The meaning of �food� in the above verse is specifically the animals slaughtered by the People of the book (Christians and Jews). (See Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 2/19). Overtly, the above verse reads that the animal slaughtered (zabiha) by the People of the Book is permissible and lawful to consume. However, there is a fundamental principle in the science of the exegesis of the Holy Qur�an (Tafsir) which states, very understandably, that, �One part of the Qur�an explains the other.� [See: Qurtubi�s introduction to his al-Jami` li Ahkam al-Qur�an, and Suyuti�s al-Itqan fi `Ulum al-Qur�an] Therefore, this verse should be understood in the light of another verse mentioned earlier relating to the same matter: �Eat not of (meats) on which Allah�s name has not been pronounced�(al-An�am, 121). In the light of both verses, it is deduced and understood that the Zabiha of the Ahl al-Kitab is only permissible when the name of Allah was taken at the time of slaughtering the animal, and the slaughtering itself done in the proper manner. As mentioned earlier, this condition of reciting the name of Allah is independently necessary. This is discussed further in the following section. I should add even Seeks Hidayah's links agree with this but he has not understood what the shaykh himself has said becouse it didnt go into greater detail. The general conditions for meat to be halal are: 1) that the animal itself be lawful to consume (so pigs, for example, are excluded) 2) that the person slaughtering the animal be a Muslim, or from amongst "those who were given the scripture before" (Jewish or a Christian) 3) that the animal be killed by using a sharp implement to cut the appropriate vessels in the throat 4) that the name of Allah be mentioned at the time of slaughter (there is some disagreement over this condition, as mentioned below) These conditions also apply when Christians or jews are slaughtering the animal and as you may know they do not do this today like they used to do it in the time of the prophet [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam]. Edited by rami
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 October 2007 at 7:37am
	It is a strange reply. Why not it should have been briefly told that it is forbidden to eat the Zabiha of the christians and the Jews. There was no need to make the message of rami very long. I have no idea how the Jews used to slaughter the animal in the time of the holy prophet s.a.w.s. And I have no knowledge how they slaughter today. If anything definite is known then it may please be explained. I would like to know about the Kosher meat of the Jews. Please keep in mind the eating of the meat of the Jewess by the prophet s.a.w.s. Now let us have more details. And not bypass the explicit instruction of the Quran and the practice of the prophet s.a.w.s. Thanks.

rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 October 2007 at 8:37am
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem You are not a mujtahid to be deriving fatwah from ahadith brother, you are obliged to seek out what the Uluma have said about this hadith and how they have understood it in light of 23 years of prophet hood not take it as a evidence for anything, something you are not qualified to do. Regarding Kosher meat it does not require a jew to pronounce the name of allah over the animal, if you specifically know of place's which explicitly fulfill the Islamic requirements then there is nothing wrong, you shouldn't take it as a given that since it is kosher it means the requirements have been met since the guideline for meat to be kosher are not the same as Islamic meat. http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=427&C ATE=29 The incident with the jewess, allahu allam, but the animal could have been killed according to the halal requirements at the time, meaning up to that point of revelation not the requirements as we know them after the full 23 year period of revelation....or this could be a case of abrogation. Edited by rami
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.