Does God beget ?

islamispeace wrote: "Well, you didn't specify he would be verbally called by those literal titles.  You just indicated that he will fill those roles in the future.   But, you did indicate that he will be called (commissioned) to those titles (ranks). I don't understand why you would say that he will never be addressed by the title of his position.  It's like saying that John Doe might accept a military commission of General, but no one is ever going to call him General." I never said that Jesus will fulfill the role of "Eternal Father" or "Almighty God".  I said that Jesus will rule according to the Laws of Islam and will be a Muslim.  He will not rule as God, but God's servant. "Who do you think the child is that Isaiah mentions?" According to the Jewish interpretation, the passage is referring to King Hezekiah, not the Messiah.  Even if it did refer to Jesus, it would not mean that he is God.  As I showed in my post above, there were many names/titles in Hebrew which, if taken literally, would suggest a state of divinity in the person who holds such a name/title, but their meaning is not literal but allegorical.  Hezekiah, according to the Jewish interpretation, was the "Eternal Father" because God increased his life by 15 extra years (see Isaiah 38:5).  He is called the "Prince of Peace" because during his last years as King, there was peace (see 2 Chronicles 32:23).  None of these titles mean that Hezekiah was to be worshiped.  That would have been a great blasphemy in the eyes of the God of Israel.

King Hezekiah is not called Emmanuel. King Hezekiah is not God.

Emmanuel means "God with us".

    The general subject here is the begetting of sons by God. I will try to keep my responses related to that matter.

    Someone objected that nowhere in the New Testament could I show explicit callings of Jesus "Mighty God, Wonderful Counseloor, Prince of Peace, and Eternal Father."

    The many verses that I did refer to should not be discarded so easily. How can you say the Son is not called God in the NT in the light of what Hebrews 1:7 says?

 "But of the Son, Your throne, O God is forever and ever ..."

Here is a New Testament reference to both the Son and the Son as "O God"/ Only by rejecting the New Testament as God's oracles can the Moslem possibly say this has no relation to Isaiah 9:6.

 It is a weak excuse to point out that "O God" is not "Mighty God."

 There is another problem. Isaiah's prophecy did not say that specifically "in the document of the New Testament to come, He shall be called ...". He just said that He shall be called such and such. Saying that one could not find the quotation of this calling in the New Testament document does not prove that He was not called such things. Besides, I showed instances where it is virtually true that the man Jesus is believed and called God incarnate.

  The prophecy of Isaiah also does not give a specific time table as to when Christ will be called this or that. His kingdom, Isaiah says will have no end. So if the duration of His kingdom is eternity at best one could only say that they have not yet heard the Son be called this or that. That does not prove that the calling will never take place.

 Actually, since at least some of the passages I showed demonstrate the New Testament designation of Christ the Son as God, we do not have to wait to eternity to hear Him be called Mighty God. God is the only one Mighty God and the Son is addressed as "O God" in Hebrews chapter one and doubting Thomas acknowledged the resurrected Son as his God.  

 Now we come to the complaint about Jesus not being called Emmanual. For those of us who do not reject the New Testament as the oracles of God it is quite enough that the apostle Matthew explains to us that the apostle explains to us under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - "Now all this has happened sp that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, 'Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel[ which is translated God with us' (Matt. 1:22,23).

 This word from the Apostle Matthew is authoritative enough. We need no more of an explanation that Jesus is indeed "God with us." The Bible says so. And Matthew does not need to sit at the feet of a Moslem to be better educated about the matter.

 In fact Jesus Himself teaches that He is indeed that Old Testament God come to earth in the form of a man in Matthew 23:

 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

 The footnote of the Recovery Version says:

 It was always God Himself who cared for Jerusalem, as a bird flutters over her young (Isa. 31:5; Deut. 32:11-12). Hence, when Jesus said, "I desired to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings." He indicated that He was God Himself.

  So in Matthew 23:37 Jesus is indeed "God with us" lamenting over Jerusalem's coming rejection of her Messiah and incarnate God - the Son Jesus Christ.

  I think it is also significant for the subject of God with us that Matthew closes with this passage:

"And behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 28:20).

 He is therefore Emmanuel - God with us, in chapter 23 and God with us all the days until the consummation of the age. Matthew, unlike Luke or Mark, does not conclude with the concept of Jesus going anywhere. Like the Gospel of John there is no indication that Jesus left His disciples. On one hand therefore He ascended to the right hand of God in heaven. And on the other hand He is still Emmanuel as God with us even today until the consummation of the age.

 Since God is immortal, for Jesus to teach that He is with us until the consummation of the age indicates that He too is immortal God.

 Now because the Moslem rejects the New Testament they substitute other ideas which they prefer to believe. It was said that Islamic sacred writings say Jesus will reign in for forty years and then die a natural death.

 The number forty in the Bible is usually reserved to indicate a time of trials and hardships. Forty days and nights Noah's ark road on the waters of the flood. Forty years in the wilderness the Hebrews suffered hardship before entering into the good land. Jesus fasted for forty days.

 There is nothing in the Bible about Jesus ruling for only forty years and then dying a natural death. And if there is peace during this time it is unlikely that the number 40 would be associated with something this positive. The teaching is not in the Bible so I don't receive it.

 Furthermore, I can't believe that after His crucifixion and resurrection Jesus would die a natural death. Not in the New Testament. Maybe in the Quran.

 But our New Testament has Jesus proclaiming after His resurrection that He will never die again. This was shown to the Apostle John in his Revelation:

" ... and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear; I am the First and the Last. And the living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys of death and of Hades. (Rev. 1:17,18).

  After His resurrection on the third day, behold, He is living forever and ever. He has the keys of death and of Hades. He is eternally victorious over the realm of death. How then can we accept that He will reign for forty years and then die a natural death? There is no such idea in the New Testament.

     Why then do we need to wait to call Him Wonderful Counselor. Who could be more Wonderful than this Son of God Who has come off victorious from death and has the keys to release all of us from its grip. We do not need to legally wait until it is the proper moment to pour out our love for the Wonderful Counselor and the Mighty God. We need not be so legal and dogmatic. Now is the time for me to pour out my love in praises for this Son Who is given to us and is the Eternal Father Jehovah come as a man.

     If you wait to find the verse where Jesus is adoringly called Eternal Father and Wonderful Counselor it may be to late to call Him that when He returns physically to the earth.

    Since He is with us all the days until the consummation of the age and beyond into eternity, we can call Him all that He is worthy to be called.  I don't want to hold back my love for the Son by waiting around until someone shows me the exact quotation of Isaiah's calling in the document of the New Testament. He has proved that He is the Mighty God and the Eternal Father incarnated as the God-man Christ the Lord, victorious over the world and sin and death itself.