i believe Quran and Bible

2Acts wrote: syed_z wrote: Saved wrote: Jesus tells us in so many ways doing to people the evil they do to you will only make the world blind and lame. We are to love our enemies and pray for those that use and abuse us. There is no other better way; that is the truth that trumps falsehood. Regards, Saved Saved,Please learn your own scriptures before you come here to preach us.The thirty-fourth verse of the tenth chapter of Matthew quotes Isa (alaihi Salaam) as having said, �Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.� (Matt: 1034) It is written in the fifty-first verse of the twelfth chapter of Luke that Isa (alaihi Salaam) said, �Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:� (Luke: 12-51) All the best. It is obvious Jesus was talking figuratively. He was simply saying his message would bring division. He was not and never did advocate violence. Unlike Mohamad. There are dozens of verses in the Quran that advocate violence.

The sword is a common Biblical image. The Roman short sword was an axe, a knife, even a shovel. Searching through the Bible the imagery is usually of dividing and cleaning. Separating good from bad, meat from bone, removing excess fat and sinew. We even have God's tongue appearing as a sword in Revelation, sorting out the final judgment

Sometimes the sword is a tool of violence, but not often. Most Biblical violence is in the OT histories. The ability to forge iron was a closely guarded Phoenician technology the Israelites did not have. In the story of the defeat of Sisera in Judges, Deborah's entire army only had one brass sword.

By Mohammed's time weaponry and metallurgy had become much more advanced.

Saved wrote: syed_z wrote: Saved,Please learn your own scriptures before you come here to preach us.The thirty-fourth verse of the tenth chapter of Matthew quotes Isa (alaihi Salaam) as having said, �Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.� (Matt: 1034) I know my Scriptures. And what your refer to as preaching is to dispel your misconceptions of the gospel and you have many. The sword Jesus is talking about is the sword of the spirit (The Word of God) It is written the word of God is quick and powerful sharper than any two edged sword piercing to the dividing of the body and the soul and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Google it bro. When did you ever hear of Jesus having an actual steel sword in his hand? syed_z wrote: It is written in the fifty-first verse of the twelfth chapter of Luke that Isa (alaihi Salaam) said, �Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:� (Luke: 12-51) All the best. That is right. When someone is living a lie and hears the truth, it upsets the false peace and sense of security they have. They will have to make a decision that breaks up families and friends most of the times. If you want to understand the intents of the gospel listen to me, and you can learn a lot. With all due respect, you should be more quick to listen than to speak bro. PBUY, Saved

Saved,

You change topics very quick. Let me remind you what you had mentioned earlier:

Saved wrote: The next verse in the Quran 16; 126 is just another way of saying an eye for an eye and tooth for tooth which is first and original to the Scripture that came before. Jesus tells us in so many ways doing to people the evil they do to you will only make the world blind and lame. We are to love our enemies and pray for those that use and abuse us. There is no other better way; that is the truth that trumps falsehood.

My purpose to quote the words of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) in the Gospel about the sword was to inform you that the Gospel also mentions words like 'Sword' and 'War' 'Division' which can be misinterpreted, infact they are being misinterpreted and have in the past. History speaks for itself.

Constantine the Great commanded the mutilation of all the Jews in his country by cutting their ears and exiled them to various places. In 372 C.E., the Roman emperor Gratianus, after a consultation with his commanders, commanded the Christianization of all the Jews in the country and the killing of those who would resist.

Misinterpretation of the words of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) has indeed taken place in the past and continue to do so by the Christians.

 The thirty-sixth verse of the twenty-second chapter of Luke quotes, �... But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.� (Luke: 22-36)

Does that mean Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) promoted violence? No. But those who claimed to be his followers have done it! So Christianity and all its followers are not about love after all.

As for your 'explanation' of 16:126 as an 'eye for an eye' 'tooth for a tooth' is weak as any person with a little bit of common sense would not agree to yours after reading the following:

(16:125) Call Thou (all mankind) unto your Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortations, and argue with them in the most kindly manner

(16:126) Hence if you have to respond to an attack (in argument) respond only to the attack leveled against you; but to bear yourselves with patience is indeed far better for (you since God is with) those who are patient in adversity.

The 16:125 guides on how to have a discussion with those who disagree with you therefore 126 is to be read in conjunction with it.

Just like how you misinterpret verses from the Quran so can the words of Gospel be misinterpreted.

As for the concept of unconditional love of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) I have the following to share with you. His disciples questioned him like you are questioning about Islam. The replies he gave to his disciples are the same that we are giving to you:

Gospel of Barnabas Chapter 58 No Pity on Reprobates

Then after he had wept, John spoke: 'O master, two things we desire to know. The one is, how it is possible that the messenger of God, who is full of mercy and pity, should have  no pity on reprobates that day, seeing that they are of the same clay as himself? The other is, how is it to be understood that the sword of Michael is heavy as ten hells; then is there more than one hell?' Jesus replied: 'Have ye not heard what David the prophet saith, how that the just shall laugh at the destruction of sinners, and shall deride him with these words, saying: "I saw the man who put his hope in his strength and his riches, and forgot God." Verily, therefore, I say unto you, that Abraham shall deride his father, and Adam all reprobate men: and this shall be because the elect shall rise again so perfect and united to God that they shall not conceive in their minds the smallest thought against his justice; therefore shall each of them demand justice, and above all the messenger of God. As God liveth, in whose presence I stand, though now I weep for
pity of mankind, on that day I shall demand justice without mercy against those who despise my words, and most of all against those who defile my gospel.

Amazingly Quran says the same:

(5:78) Those Children of Israel who defied [God] were cursed through the words of David, and Jesus, son of Mary, because they disobeyed, they persistently overstepped the limits, they did not forbid each other to do wrong. How vile their deeds were


Gospel of Mathew Verse 34

A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.�


There is no unconditional love. Justice is part of God's love for mankind and had it not been for God's justice mankind would have been worst than it already is.

syed_z wrote: DavidC wrote: 2Acts wrote: syed_z wrote: Saved wrote: Jesus tells us in so many ways doing to people the evil they do to you will only make the world blind and lame. We are to love our enemies and pray for those that use and abuse us. There is no other better way; that is the truth that trumps falsehood. Regards, Saved Saved,Please learn your own scriptures before you come here to preach us.The thirty-fourth verse of the tenth chapter of Matthew quotes Isa (alaihi Salaam) as having said, �Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.� (Matt: 1034) It is written in the fifty-first verse of the twelfth chapter of Luke that Isa (alaihi Salaam) said, �Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:� (Luke: 12-51) All the best. It is obvious Jesus was talking figuratively. He was simply saying his message would bring division. He was not and never did advocate violence. Unlike Mohamad. There are dozens of verses in the Quran that advocate violence. The sword is a common Biblical image. The Roman short sword was an axe, a knife, even a shovel. Searching through the Bible the imagery is usually of dividing and cleaning. Separating good from bad, meat from bone, removing excess fat and sinew. We even have God's tongue appearing as a sword in Revelation, sorting out the final judgment Sometimes the sword is a tool of violence, but not often. Most Biblical violence is in the OT histories. The ability to forge iron was a closely guarded Phoenician technology the Israelites did not have. In the story of the defeat of Sisera in Judges, Deborah's entire army only had one brass sword. By Mohammed's time weaponry and metallurgy had become much more advanced. Greetings David, I appreciate your explanation.The fact that people like Saved misinterpret words of Quran and claim that its a religion of violence and there is no love, so my point to show him that such words also exist in the Gospel and can be misinterpreted. I am very well aware of the personality of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) and all other prophets. They were the best to walk on earth, they are all beloved to us and we make no distinction between the messengers of God, in other words we don't cherry pick Prophets. We don't reject one and accept the other. We Hear the Command of God and We Obey, and that is what defines servitude and a true believer.I appreciate your words my friend.Thank you.�

Thank you, Syed. The resource I found most valuable as a Christian in understanding violence in Islam was Martin Ling's biography of Muhammad. Ling used hadith exclusively as his source, so one can read direct accounts of Muhammad acting as a general through a well documented, traditional muslim perspective.

Muhammad's sense of chivalry, fair play and mercy are shown to be a definitive part of his ethos. The Qu'ran is limited in discussing violence, and reading hadith is exhausting. I think Ling did a good job of presenting an orthodox Muslim perspective and anyone interested in understanding violence within Islam as Muslims understand it would do well to start with Ling.

It is also simply a fascinating read, and biography of one of histories most important personalities.

syed_z wrote: Saved misinterpret words of Quran and claim that its a religion of violence and there is no love, so my point to show him that such words also exist in the Gospel and can be misinterpreted.

I never said the Quran is a religion of violence. You are putting words in my mouth. I said it is interpreted differently by Muslims some interpret it like ISIS and that is giving it a violent interpretation and others see it as peaceful. I see no absolutes regarding violence or non violence. The gospel is absolute where Jesus says love your enemies. There is no such absolutes I can find in the Quran.
I just like calling a spade a spade. I don't like beating around the bush so to speak. You are the one giving misinterpretation to the gospel implying Jesus used a sword to commit violence when I believe you know better.

Edited by Saved - 24 November 2016 at 5:53pm