Is Jesus God?

syed_z wrote: @2ActsAli Ibn Abi Talib (alaihi Salaam) said "Man is an enemy of that which he has no knowledge"��And before Solomon were marshaled His hosts � of Jinns and men And birds, and they were all Kept in order and ranks. �At length, when they came To a (lowly) valley of ants, One of the ants said: �O ye ants, get into Your habitations, lest Solomon And his hosts crush you (Under foot) without knowing it.�� [AlQur�aan 27:17-18]Scientific Facts about the Lifestyle of Ants:(a) The ants bury their dead in a manner similar to the humans. (b) They have a sophisticated system of division of labour, whereby they have managers, supervisors, foremen, workers, etc.� (c) Once in a while they meet among themselves to have a �chat�. (d) They have an advanced method of communication (pheromones) among themselves.� (e) They hold regular markets wherein they exchange goods.� (f) They store grains for long periods in winter and if the grain begins to bud, they cut the roots, as if they understand that if they leave it to grow, it will rot. If the grains stored by them get wet due to rains, they take these grains out into the sunlight to dry, and once these are dry, they take them back inside as though they know that humidity will cause development of root systems and thereafter rotting of the grain. There is an answer for each and every "error" you pointed within the Quran. I believe brother Asep will respond to them.All the best.

Only one problem with that Syed.
Ants are not capable of sophisticated verbal communication to be able to say -
�O ye ants, get into Your habitations, lest Solomon And his hosts crush you (Under foot) without knowing it.�
Man is an enemy of that which is foolishness !


Edited by 2Acts - 29 November 2016 at 10:43pm

Roman Catholics do not believe the Pope is infallible.

Their dogma is that when the Pope speaks officially on matters of faith that believers do not sin if they follow his teaching, even if it is incorrect. There is no sin because they were following God in good faith as best they could.

From the believers POV the Pope is an infallible spiritual leader, but RC's believe Pope is a sinner and prone to error as are we all. He even has a designated confessor.

�And before Solomon were marshaled His hosts � of Jinns and men And birds, and they were all Kept in order and ranks. �At length, when they came To a (lowly) valley of ants, One of the ants said: �O ye ants, get into Your habitations, lest Solomon And his hosts crush you (Under foot) without knowing it.�� [AlQur�aan 27:17-18]

Great news that the God informs us that our weight is such that we can crush ants.

I'm learning every day:   Airmano

Edited by airmano - 30 November 2016 at 1:17pm

2Acts wrote: asep48garut60 wrote: 2Acts wrote: asep48garut60 wrote: Dear Saved, I didn�t say �God may have sons by the tons as you mentioned�, I even deny that God has a son, even me explain to you what is stated in John 5:27 that there is the same understanding with the statement in the Quran 4: 171, Koran 5: 116-120 that Jesus is the son of man, not a son of God. You said �Theses titles concerning Jesus need to be looked at in the context of all the gospel. You cannot take one phrase and created a doctrine. � Therefore, I've read the contents of some of the Gospels, and I found a lot of contents aren't equal between one to another. do I need to prove? Regards, Asep Yes. You need to prove ! Dear 2Acts, Here are some evidence that I read: 1. Which one is true, 8 years or 18 years? "Jehoiachin was eight years old when he became king, and three months and ten days he reigned in Jerusalem. He did evil in the sight of God. "(The Book of 2 Chronicles 36:9) "Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. His mother's name Nehusta bint Elnathan, from Jerusalem. "(The Book of 2 Kings 24:8) 2. Which one is right, God or the Devil? "Rise wrath of God against Israel; He incited David against them, He say, 'Go, count the people of Israel and Judah.' "(The Book of 2 Samuel 24:1) "Devil stood up against the people of Israel, and persuaded David to number Israel." (The Book of 1 Chronicles 21:1) 3. Verse unreasonable "And Shem and Japhet took a garment, and put on their shoulders, and walked retreat to the back and cover up his father naked and their faces turned their father in order not to see the body of their father were nude. And Noah awoke from hangover, he know what has been done by his two sons ". (Genesis 9: 23-24) Does God send Noah (a prophet) behaves like that? Could this fraud committed Jews to mislead the Christians? And many others. Regards, Asep Hi Asep The contradictions are easily explained. The Bible and Quran make different claims about them selves. The Bible is more like your hadith. It does not claim to be some kind of absolute literal WORD straight from God. Instead it claims to be the INSPIRED Word of God written by imperfect men. Basically it means �God breathed�. (2 Timothy 3.16) The Bible was written by human beings -men. Imperfect men who had the breath of God upon them. Men who were imperfect but yet were inspired. Any error in scripture is limited to the shortcomings of the vessel and not the message. Any such errors are limited and have no bearing on the ultimate message of the scriptures. The Scriptures are always right only in fulfilling their primary purpose: revealing God, God�s vision, God�s purposes, and God�s good news to humanity. The Bible�s message is directly inspired by God, and though he used human vessels to transport this message it remains accurate and trustworthy. However look at the Quran. Unlike the INSPIRED Bible - It is supposed to be the direct, absolute, literal, perfect WORD of God. But it has many problems and contradictions. The direct literal perfect WORD of GOD must not have problems and contradictions. Here are some examples- Contradictions � Who suffers loss if Muhammad was wrong? Sura 34:50 commands Muhammad to say, "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss," which is a severe factual error in the Qur'an as well as contradicting the teaching of the Qur'an in a number of other verses. Allah, Adam, and the Angels. There are a great number of problems and inconsistencies between the several accounts of Adam's creation, Allah's command to prostrate before Adam, Satans refusal, etc. Who Was the First Muslim? Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]? Can Allah be seen and did Muhammad see his Lord? Yes [S. 53:1-18, 81:15-29], No [6:102-103, 42:51]. Ridiculous � The Quran says Soloman spoke with ants. O ants! Enter your dwellings, lest Sulayman and his armies should crush you, while they perceive not. Sura 27:18-19 But ants do not communicate in a sophisticated manner as to say. Sura 18:85-86 reveals that the Sun sets in a muddy pool. This is ridiculous! Throwing Stars at the Devils? The stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils? In order to not let them eavesdrop on the heavenly coucil? Not exactly a "scientific" world view. Sura 37.6-8 This is all just ridiculous and an example of how the writer of the Quran did not understand the facts of science. Regarding the behaviour of Noah. Do I think a prophet should behave like that ? Perhaps. Noah was just a man. Nothing more. He was not perfect. What about Mohamad. He ordered his men to piece his enemies eyes with hot nails ! (Sahih Bukhari). Is that how a prophet should behave !?

Dear 2Acts,

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Here are some examples- Contradictions
Who suffers loss if Muhammad was wrong?
Sura 34:50 commands Muhammad to say, "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss," which is a severe factual error in the Qur'an as well as contradicting the teaching of the Qur'an in a number of other verses.
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There�s no contradictions.
Indeed surah 34:50 it like that, but the continuation of the verse "and if I got the hint, then it is due to what is revealed from my Lord. indeed He is Hearing, Most Near. "

Such verse goes down when the companions of the Prophet always took the initiative to write down what was said by the Prophet, and he forbids to write other than what was ordered to be written. And verses to be written by them is only that which is revealed from God. Quran 53: 3-4

Then, "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss,"
He hinted to his companions that he was also a man who did not escape from doing wrong, as in a hadith narrated by Bukhari and Muslim:
"All the descendants of Adam is guilty, and the best for those who guilty was who repent and not repeat mistakes."

Apart from that, when he dies, his people do not worship him as God, as it has been done by the polytheists against Lata, Uzza, and Manat.

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Who Was the First Muslim?
Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?
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The first Muslim is Adam.
02:37 � about: God provides a way to pray for the mistakes Adam, as mentioned in 07:23
02:127-133 about: Ya'kub descendants will worship only to the God of Abraham.
03:67 � about: Abraham is a muslim (muslim means one who surrender and submits to Allah)
06:14 � about: Muhammad is the first Muslim in his environment, at the time no one was embrace Islam.
06:163 � (same with 06:14)
07:143 � about: Moses is the first Muslim in his environment, at the time no one was embrace Islam like Abraham's religion.
26:51 � (same with 07:143)

Explanation:
Islam comes from the word "aslama" which means surrender or submission to Allah, and is derived from the word "salima" which means saved, thus says Islam can be defined that salvation from Allah. And the word Muslim is the subject or the person who runs the Islamic shariah.
All the Apostles are surrender and worship only to one God.
"Verily (this monotheism religion) is the religion of all of you, that is only one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me" (Al-Anbiya 21:92)
Statement of the Apostles that they are the ones who surrendered to Allah, such as: Quran 02: 132, 10:72, 10:84, 21:25, 42:13 etc.

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Can Allah be seen and did Muhammad see his Lord?
Yes [S. 53:1-18, 81:15-29],
No [6:102-103, 42:51].
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What is mentioned in Surah 53: 1-18 and 81: 15-29 is that Muhammad saw Gabriel in the original form (not seeing God), that is in Sidratil Muntaha when it received the command about shalah 5 times a day and night, and when he was on earth.
Then what is mentioned in Surah 6: 102-103 and 42:51 is indeed true that God can not be seen directly by the human eye sight.

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Ridiculous �
The Quran says Soloman spoke with ants. O ants! Enter your dwellings, lest Sulayman and his armies should crush you, while they perceive not.
Sura 27:18-19
But ants do not communicate in a sophisticated manner as to say.
Sura 18:85-86 reveals that the Sun sets in a muddy pool.
This is ridiculous!
Throwing Stars at the Devils?
The stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils? In order to not let them eavesdrop on the heavenly coucil? Not exactly a "scientific" world view.
Sura 37.6-8
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There�s no ridiculous.
What is referred to in Sura 27: 18-19 it is a real incident, because it is one of the miracles of the Prophet Solomon. Miracles is something extraordinary which no one is able to make it, because it is beyond human ability, therefore it can't be scientifically measured.

What is referred to in Sura 18: 85-86 is that they see the sun set exactly vertically with a black muddy spring, and found a surrounding people who are not religious.

Then, surah 37:6-8 �throwing stars at the devils.�
Vision of the human eye is limited, whereas in this universe there are creatures that physically can be seen and some are not viewable (unseen), and it would be hard measured by science, and for a Muslim who was given the knowledge of the unseen (ghaib), they will believe it. Therefore the devils pelted with stars is a natural thing, because sometimes the earth is located between two devil horns. And that's one of the secrets of the dawn prayer (not all muslims know it).

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This is all just ridiculous and an example of how the writer of the Quran did not understand the facts of science. Regarding the behaviour of Noah. Do I think a prophet should behave like that ? Perhaps. Noah was just a man. Nothing more. He was not perfect. What about Mohamad. He ordered his men to piece his enemies eyes with hot nails ! (Sahih Bukhari). Is that how a prophet should behave !?
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I think quite the contrary, when the Quran was written, people didn't know the science, but the Quran has informed about science, and now one by one can be provable, for example: the sun has its own orbit, etc.
Then, all the messengers of God was well-behaved, how will they be followed by their followers if they were behaved badly.
Nowadays a lot of scattered hadiths with the name of sahih hadith. I've explained in this forum about how to determine that it's an sahih hadith.
Hadith which states that "he ordered his men to pieces his enemies eyes with hot nails", is strongly opposed to the hadiths of the following:

"Actually I was sent to perfect the noble character." (Sahih Muslim)
"Love the people as you love yourself." (Sahih Bukhari)
"Whoever does not love his fellow man, he/she will not be loved by God." (Sahih Bukhari & Muslim). And much more.

God's statement regarding the character of the Prophet Muhammad in the Quran include:
Surah 68: 4, 33:21, 16: 127, 3: 159 etc.

Regards,
Asep